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Models who expect me to pay them for their portfolio upgrade

Barney Douglas is off-line
01 December 2013 15:25
bdfoto
Photographer
bdfoto
Location
United Kingdom
West Sussex
Worthing

Quote from skymouse
None of those costs are any business of the model and it is an impertinence to burden the model with knowledge of them, far less expect the model to be involved in the payment or budgeting of those things.



@skymouse I think you are missing my point.  (As a corollary iff you fill in your tax return yourself, you pay for the work by not getting an income while you do it. If you pay a accountant to do it for you, you pay a fee for that person to do it, but you may find they save you tax.  Would you ask an accountat to do the work for nothing? 

Quote from skymouse
Assuminmg your one of the minority of photogrtaphers whose clients include models, the model is paying for photographic services (and mostl likely IP rights of some type, ranging perhaps from a usage licence of some kind all the way to copyright assignment). She is not bankrolling your internal busines costs.




@skymouse - it's not a case of bankrolling and yes I do have models and dancers who are clients.  Any business has to make a profit or it is not a business, therefore everyone who pays me a fee pays a proportion of my fixed costs - studio rent, insurance, etc, and ALL of the variable costs applicable to that shoot.


"Simplicity in Photography for over 25 Years"


Steven Jardine is off-linePlatinum Member
01 December 2013 15:36
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
Location
United Kingdom
Buckinghamshire
Stoke Mandeville

Perhaps models are better off sticking to working hith amateurs shooting for a hobby, who often not only pay models well but are often also willing to give them quality images from the shoot. Far less agro than working with pros it seems and also seemingly a better deal for them.
When you are dead, you do not know that you are dead. All of your pain is felt by others. The same thing happens when you are stupid.


Barney Douglas is off-line
01 December 2013 17:22
bdfoto
Photographer
bdfoto
Location
United Kingdom
West Sussex
Worthing

Quote from RedChecker
Perhaps models are better off sticking to working hith amateurs shooting for a hobby, who often not only pay models well but are often also willing to give them quality images from the shoot. Far less agro than working with pros it seems and also seemingly a better deal for them.



EVERY model with whom I work - paid, collaboration, TF, paying me - gets a complete set of watermarked proofs at standard definition, and I ALWAYS provide a minimum dozen images at standard definition for online use, and high definition for printing.  The difference is that when the client is paying me I do not add my logo and copyright mark unless the client has given permission within the contract between us.



"Simplicity in Photography for over 25 Years"


01 December 2013 17:57
Socialdisaster
Photographer


Quote from bdfoto
EVERY model with whom I work - paid, collaboration, TF, paying me - gets a complete set of watermarked proofs at standard definition, and I ALWAYS provide a minimum dozen images at standard definition for online use, and high definition for printing.  



Yeah and it's people like you doing that, who raise the expectations of model as to what they do and don't get from shoots, making the rest of our lives hard just so you can be "nice".

Modesty is just arrogance in stealth mode


Paul Hodson is off-line
02 December 2013 06:22
mph
Photographer
mph
Location
United Kingdom
Cheshire
Crewe

Quote from Socialdisaster
Yeah and it's people like you doing that, who raise the expectations of model as to what they do and don't get from shoots, making the rest of our lives hard just so you can be "nice".



Not really a problem if you are an amateur - it's not "hard" to be "nice" and for professionals, the massively higher standard of their work means they won't have a problem justifying their stance.........................
Amateur - happy to do TF with models with potential and enthusiasm. Website: www.mphodson.co.uk


Steven Jardine is off-linePlatinum Member
02 December 2013 06:41
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
Location
United Kingdom
Buckinghamshire
Stoke Mandeville

smiley
When you are dead, you do not know that you are dead. All of your pain is felt by others. The same thing happens when you are stupid.


Gerry is off-line
02 December 2013 06:59
Gerry99111
Photographer
Gerry99111
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey
Guildford

Quote from bdfoto
EVERY model with whom I work - paid, collaboration, TF, paying me - gets a complete set of watermarked proofs at standard definition, and I ALWAYS provide a minimum dozen images at standard definition for online use, and high definition for printing.  The difference is that when the client is paying me I do not add my logo and copyright mark unless the client has given permission within the contract between us.






How bizzare, you put up a thread complaining that models look to be paid for their portfolio development and then you say that on paid shoots, you give models images they can use in their portfolio with a watermark.

The only difference then is if they pay you instead of you paying them, they get images without your logo included.

It appears you are already giving them what you are complaining about so I am not sure what the issue is.

If you have to ask why I do it, you will never understand the reason why


Barney Douglas is off-line
02 December 2013 07:01
bdfoto
Photographer
bdfoto
Location
United Kingdom
West Sussex
Worthing

Quote from Gerry99111
How bizzare, you put up a thread complaining that models look to be paid for their portfolio development and then you say that on paid shoots, you give models images they can use in their portfolio with a watermark.

The only difference then is if they pay you instead of you paying them, they get images without your logo included.

It appears you are already giving them what you are complaining about so I am not sure what the issue is.




This is a matter of networking and SEO.  The more people wtih whom I have worked who link to me and vice-versa, the better it is for us both.
"Simplicity in Photography for over 25 Years"


Mike Blissett is off-line
02 December 2013 07:26
MikeBee
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Kent
Canterbury

When in a hole never keep digging...


G Jack B is off-line
02 December 2013 11:00
Plymjack
Photographer
Plymjack
Location
United Kingdom
Devon
Plymouth

Quote from stolenfaces
 What a waste of a perfectly good casting system if models just post castings that don't interest you!!




LOL.....and so very true...
Real Bread Cook by day, BTL landlord & IT Guru - who said men can't multitask!



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