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Models who expect me to pay them for their portfolio upgrade

Paul Hodson is off-line
24 November 2013 08:15
mph
Photographer
mph
Location
United Kingdom
Cheshire
Crewe

Quote from jessicard
I thought we'd already established countless threads ago that some amateur photographers are happy to be given ideas to work with even if they are paying for the shoot and sometimes are even happy to present the model with images afterwards purely because they took the shots for fun!



for fun? - It'll never catch on. What are the amateurs thinking about?

Amateur - happy to do TF with models with potential and enthusiasm. Website: www.mphodson.co.uk


Paul Thompson is off-linePlatinum Member
24 November 2013 09:59
Biggles485
Photographer
Biggles485
Location
United Kingdom
Hampshire
Fareham

I started out with a camera about fifty years ago, shooting scenes of land, sea and mountains, if I wanted to shoot a particular location / scene I'd have to pay to travel to / from that location and then the time it took travelling would count against shooting time. Now working with models they mostly travel to me so saving me time and the effort of the travel, the vary least I can do is reimburse reasonable travel costs and will always do so!

If a professional photographer only wants to work with a model when someone else is paying for the shoot I suggest they take up something they enjoy which doesn't cost them anything financially when they have to fund that shoot!

I'm constantly reading the same / similar threads on here and seems to me that photographers are willing to pay out on expensive equipment, locations and the like but want to scrimp on the subject matter, if a model seeks payment then pay them! Otherwise shoot landscapes, they don't never no-show and are cheap!

So many photographers are so far up themselves or blowing smoke up others, they forget to enjoy the whole experience; arranging the shoot, the ideas / location, meeting and working with people / characters / individuals and then seeing the results. Makes me wonder why they bother in the first place
When going through Hell don't stop!


Gerry is off-line
24 November 2013 13:03
Gerry99111
Photographer
Gerry99111
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey
Guildford

No more daft than the photographer who keeps posting TFP castings for models to be spanked, like that is really going to benefit the models portfolio.

Those photographers that are good at producing TFP work or even being paid [ie they actually can produce images that will earn the model some proper cash rather than give them some more mediocre images] are far too busy shooting high quality models to notice or care what the other wannabies are up to.

If you have time to get annoyed about what some models get up to then maybe your product is not yet of a standard that will attract models to shoot with you on your terms



If you have to ask why I do it, you will never understand the reason why


Rob Keynsham is off-line
25 November 2013 10:16
basil
Photographer
basil
Location
United Kingdom
Avon
Bristol

Quote from mph
for fun? - It'll never catch on. What are the amateurs thinking about?


I think the mods should stop these types of people joining the site. Lets ban all photographers without accreditation to three professional bodies and all models who haven't been published in Vogue (or Playboy for the adult models). Or possibly lets ban all photographers with accreditation to any professional body and all models who have been paid for published clothed work. I suspect the latter group is considerably smaller and has expectations beyond the average Purestorm member.


25 November 2013 11:47
silverk
Photographer


Quote from Biggles485

I'm constantly reading the same / similar threads on here and seems to me that photographers are willing to pay out on expensive equipment, locations and the like but want to scrimp on the subject matter, if a model seeks payment then pay them! Otherwise shoot landscapes, they don't never no-show and are cheap!

So many photographers are so far up themselves or blowing smoke up others, they forget to enjoy the whole experience; arranging the shoot, the ideas / location, meeting and working with people / characters / individuals and then seeing the results. Makes me wonder why they bother in the first place



A very BIG +1





25 November 2013 15:29
Jackass
Photographer


Possibly 80% or more of the membership of Purestorm is made up of "Hobbyists". The "Hobbyists" pay the bills around here. Anyone wanting to hobnob with only "Professional" photographers and Models can do so on another site we can't mention.

And what's wrong with doing something just for the fun of it anyway?
If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, it could be my ex wife.


Mike Blissett is off-line
01 December 2013 12:43
MikeBee
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Kent
Canterbury

Quote from bdfoto
Sorry everyone ... no I'm not sorry at all ...  I just have to have a moan this morning about the number of models who post castings asking the photographer to pay them, because they want specific images for their portfolio.

Models, if I pay you it is because either:

I have been commissioned to shoot a specific job which requires a specific image or set of images for a specific purpose.  I get paid by the client.  I pay you to model for that job; or

I have a specific need for images for my profile / website / portfolio and you, the model, meets that specific need.

Yesterday's shoot was a male model in a tux and a top hat for a USA marketing agency.  I paid the model for his time, the same as I am paying the Photoshop artist for her time, and the client is paying me.

Models - if you want images for your profile then please be prepared to pay for:

My shooting time,

My studio time,

My heating bill,

My equipment and public liability insurance

My equipment maintenance

My travel time, and most of all

My knowledge of this industry learned over thirty years.

I am, no doubt, not the best photographer here, but please, models, if you want something to enhance your portfolio, then be prepared to pay for it, or at the very least offer collaboration that makes it worth the photographer's time..



Agree 100%... If it's a paid shoot, then it's who ever pays for the shoot that has control over the images. That's the way it is and that's why we have TFP's... Some people!!



Neil Anderson is off-line
01 December 2013 12:55
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
Location
United Kingdom
London
West London

Quote from MikeBee
Agree 100%... If it's a paid shoot, then it's who ever pays for the shoot that has control over the images. That's the way it is and that's why we have TFP's... Some people!!



He isn't talking about 'control' he's talking about 'suggesting' particular shots in a casting.
And technically the photographer still has control of the images when they don't pay.

So you 100% agree with something he didn't say !


Like any dealer he was watching for the card that is so high and wild he'll never need to deal another...


Mike Blissett is off-line
01 December 2013 13:33
MikeBee
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Kent
Canterbury

Quote from stolenfaces


He isn't talking about 'control' he's talking about 'suggesting' particular shots in a casting.
And technically the photographer still has control of the images when they don't pay.

So you 100% agree with something he didn't say !

I agree with what's being said.. then I added my own comments. Some people!








Skymouse is off-lineGold Member
01 December 2013 13:40
skymouse
Photographer
skymouse
Location
United Kingdom
London
London

Quote from bdfoto
Sorry everyone ... no I'm not sorry at all ...  I just have to have a moan this morning about the number of models who post castings asking the photographer to pay them, because they want specific images for their portfolio.




What, do you think their casting calls are addressing you as an individual?

Quote from bdfoto
Models - if you want images for your profile then please be prepared to pay for:
  • My shooting time,
  • My studio time,
  • My heating bill,
  • My equipment and public liability insurance
  • My equipment maintenance
  • My travel time, and most of all
  • My knowledge of this industry learned over thirty years.

None of those costs are any business of the model and it is an impertinence to burden the model with knowledge of them, far less expect the model to be involved in the payment or budgeting of those things.

Quote from bdfoto
I am, no doubt, not the best photographer here, but please, models, if you want something to enhance your portfolio, then be prepared to pay for it, or at the very least offer collaboration that makes it worth the photographer's time..



Assuminmg your one of the minority of photogrtaphers whose clients include models, the model is paying for photographic services (and mostl likely IP rights of some type, ranging perhaps from a usage licence of some kind all the way to copyright assignment). She is not bankrolling your internal busines costs.

"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx.



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