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Outrageous Police Behavoir

Mike is off-lineSilver Member
02 August 2013 14:17
M1KE
Photographer
M1KE
Location
United Kingdom
Cheshire
Chester

Quote from Sarge
If, for sake of argument, she was not searched due to there only being one female police officer and she had something concealed which was used later to cause herself harm then the police would be damned for not searching her. If they did allow that lone female to search her and a fight broke out where either the detainee or officer was harmed the police would be damned again for allowing it to happen. Ok, if their actions were proven to be the correct ones then there is little to worry about. But they are still damned by the public as most will believe what they want to.



All valid points.  If the required number of female officers are not available for the search and it must go ahead with males involved as a last resort so be it.

Any reason this would not be recorded in writing?

Any reason not to give the detainee her clothes back immediately or offer alternative coverings for her modesty if the original garments are still required for other reasons?

Any chance station CCTV would not record voyeuristic activities by those behind the custody desk?


 

"Down with this sort of thing", "Careful now"


Steve Guy is off-line
02 August 2013 18:18
Sdeve
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Derbyshire
Derby

Quote from Sarge


It's not quite as black and white as that and you are not looking at the full picture.
Sticking with this case and the views of most of the public the police are damned here due to trial by media.
If, for sake of argument, she was not searched due to there only being one female police officer and she had something concealed which was used later to cause herself harm then the police would be damned for not searching her.
If they did allow that lone female to search her and a fight broke out where either the detainee or officer was harmed the police would be damned again for allowing it to happen.
Ok, if their actions were proven to be the correct ones then there is little to worry about. But they are still damned by the public as most will believe what they want to.
How many times are 'the police' labelled under that heading as ALL being the same? They are ALL damned by some due to the actions of a few.

Thanks for calling me incompetent




Any time.


Durham Photographics is off-lineSilver Member
03 August 2013 06:49
Sarge
Photographer
Sarge
Location
United Kingdom
County Durham


Quote from M1KE

All valid points.  If the required number of female officers are not available for the search and it must go ahead with males involved as a last resort so be it.

Any reason this would not be recorded in writing?

Any reason not to give the detainee her clothes back immediately or offer alternative coverings for her modesty if the original garments are still required for other reasons?



Any chance station CCTV would not record voyeuristic activities by those behind the custody desk?





 



Anything of significance should be recorded on a custody log, from an officer offering the detainee a cup of tea to the detainee speaking with their brief. This is done by ANY member of custody staff (who has access to the computer system). The sergeant is the one responsible for the WHOLE custody suite and everyone who is in it.
On a weekend the custody suite can be EXTREMELY busy and it is VERY difficult to keep track of everything that goes on. However, if its getting to that stage then the sergeant should slow things down in order to allow themselves to catch up with what is going on. Even if they make a late entry into the log to say what has happened.
There are a few possibilities why this was not done...

Firstly, incompetence, they were simply lax with their procedures.
Secondly, forgetting due to being busy. They may have had every intention to make a late entry but forgot. Still poor practice, but can happen.
Third, they were not aware of what was going on. Still no excuse as they should be aware of EVERYTHING that is happening on their suite, but if not told then they may not even be aware.
The sergeant could be in charge of 50 prisoners, loads of staff and everyone who comes and goes through the custody suite and EVERYTHING that happens during their 12 hour shift.
It is not unusual for someone to be arrested and for it to take 3,4,5 hours to actually just get through the door into the custody office never mind being booked in and dealt with.

If clothing is seized for forensic purposes then the detainee will be given either a paper overall suit or a tee shirt and jogging bottoms (depends on what this force uses). They can even ask a family member to bring some clothing in.
If the person is going to harm themselves with their clothing (choke, hang, etc), then they cant give them clothing as they have a responsibility for their welfare. They also have a responsibility to protect them from degrading behaviour as that is part of their human rights.
As I said, we don't know the full story. They may have stripped her for some reason and given her clothing to put on herself which she chose not to. Did they leave her naked? Yes they did. Its these details that tend to get missed out on news reports.

As Sdeve and I said, not all cells record or use cctv, only certain ones do. The custody staff have no access to these recordings, and they are on continuously.
They will sometimes put people in these cells to protect themselves (in case they self harm) or to protect the officers in case of accusations.
Ask yourself, if they were going to do this as the story would have us believe, would they do in in a camera monitored cell which could implicate them beyond all doubt, or in a cell where it would be the word of a drunken/drugged woman who had been trying to harm herself against 5 officers?


Mike is off-lineSilver Member
03 August 2013 07:49
M1KE
Photographer
M1KE
Location
United Kingdom
Cheshire
Chester

Hi Sarge,

I remember those paper suits from my teenage years on the ID parade list.  When the paper suits came out our eyes would light up as we knew it would be a longer process and we'd be getting another tenner before we left.  Ahh youth, and the many benefits of a shaved head.

My third point related not to the actual use of CCTV in the cell but whether or not the investigation will be able to determine who behind the custody desk watched the live feed from the monitor and why? 

One or two custody staff - fine.  Four or five blokes with their camera phones out - different story.  Not saying it did happen in this case but out of interest is there any chance station CCTV would not record voyeuristic activities by those behind the custody desk?
"Down with this sort of thing", "Careful now"


Tony Stephenson is off-line
03 August 2013 07:59
tonycsm
Photographer
tonycsm
Location
United Kingdom
East Yorkshire
Driffield

When my late wife worked in a charge/custody room in a busy inner city station, EVERYTHING was recorded in detail no matter how busy they were and I doubt very much somehow that a female would have been left naked for even limited numbers of officers to see, if she had been strip searched.
She should have been provided with suitable clothing or a blanket at the very least to preserve her modesty.

It's simply very unprofessional policing and the custody sergeant failed miserably.
www.le-femme.co.uk


Durham Photographics is off-lineSilver Member
03 August 2013 08:00
Sarge
Photographer
Sarge
Location
United Kingdom
County Durham


Quote from M1KE
Hi Sarge,


My third point related not to the actual use of CCTV in the cell but whether or not the investigation will be able to determine who behind the custody desk watched the live feed from the monitor and why? 



One or two custody staff - fine.  Four or five blokes with their camera phones out - different story.  Not saying it did happen in this case but out of interest is there any chance station CCTV would not record voyeuristic activities by those behind the custody desk?





Most of the custody area itself is covered by CCTV for various reasons, one for evidential purposes, secondly so people cant claim that they had items taken from them when being booked in that were not returned and also to show that procedures were followed through correctly.
The monitors that are used to watch inside of cells will be in the back office and I don't know if this area will be covered by CCTV. To be honest, a custody suit is usually far too busy to have people sitting around watching CCTV. Not only that, but 5 of them were apparently in the cell dealing with this lady, so that wouldn't leave many (if any) left to watch it. But that depends on the size of the custody suit of course.



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