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Iain Thomson is off-linePlatinum Member
29 July 2013 04:38
IainT
Photographer
IainT
Location
United Kingdom
Bedfordshire


Quote from HowardJ
Not many people read the forum on this site particularly the models.



You would be surprised who reads these forums. Do you think the authorities in the force area where these alleged offences were committed are unaware of this thread? Not to mention newspaper news desks.
I tend to be a modest man, but then I do have a lot to be modest about.


Durham Photographics is off-lineSilver Member
29 July 2013 04:46
Sarge
Photographer
Sarge
Location
United Kingdom
County Durham


Quote from IainT

Because nothing has happened in the past are you saying we should say oh well, if someone has got away with something for 40 years, lets just let him get on with it, because there is obviously nothing can be done.




That is what a lot of people are saying.
How many times do we read 'well the police did nothing last time, so why bother reporting it this time'?

Quote from HowardJ


I think there's quite a few things this individual does that don't comply with the law yet the police don't act. This is one of the many things that's made me lose faith in the legal system in this country. They'll pay £100,000 for speed cameras etc but they won't tackle serious crimes (rapes, burglaries, etc) because they're "difficult" and "time consuming". Can someone explain to me why the police haven't taken any action despite the many reports from models?



The police will act, and in fact HAVE TO act.
I cant comment on individual cases as I don't know all the details, but will say that the police will look into any crime reported.
One of the problems we photographers/models/humans have is that we listen to a few tales from other people that state that the police 'did nothing' and think that firstly its 100% true and that secondly ALL police are like that.
I can assure you that these stories of police not doing their job (rightly or wrongly) have a far greater effect than those where police do a great job.
Instead of telling people that police 'wont do anything' making the victim reluctant to make a complaint, actively encourage people to make a report instead (if you really care about them).

There is a thing called the 'victims charter', this is where the police have to keep the victim updated on the progress of their report/complaint. If you don't get an update ASK for one. Don't just sit there thinking that the police aren't doing anything.
Most police are still VERY passionate about investigating 'real' crime, that is why they become solo (sexual offence liaison officers) trained or work within that department. The problem is they may only be 2 or 3 working in there and have a lot of jobs come in, so an historical case from several months ago may not be dealt with as quickly as an on going child abuse case, but will get dealt with.
If you are unsure how a case is progressing then ASK, you also have a responsibility to help yourself don't forget.
If you are still not happy with what is being done then go higher, don't just let it rest with the officer in the case, let his/her bosses know.

As for spending more money on speeders than they do on crime, that is totally ridiculous. Firstly, speed camera are self generating, so pay for themselves out of the money they gather. Secondly this money goes to the government for them to use as they see fit and not the police force. In fact I know a lot of forces that don't even have ANY static speed cameras AT ALL. Ok, they have the boxes, but they don't have any cameras in them due to the cuts.


HowardJ is off-line
29 July 2013 05:00
HowardJ
Photographer
HowardJ
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey
West Midlands

Quote from Sarge

That is what a lot of people are saying.
How many times do we read 'well the police did nothing last time, so why bother reporting it this time'?

HowardJ

I think there's quite a few things this individual does that don't comply with the law yet the police don't act. This is one of the many things that's made me lose faith in the legal system in this country. They'll pay £100,000 for speed cameras etc but they won't tackle serious crimes (rapes, burglaries, etc) because they're "difficult" and "time consuming". Can someone explain to me why the police haven't taken any action despite the many reports from models?


The police will act, and in fact HAVE TO act.
I cant comment on individual cases as I don't know all the details, but will say that the police will look into any crime reported.
One of the problems we photographers/models/humans have is that we listen to a few tales from other people that state that the police 'did nothing' and think that firstly its 100% true and that secondly ALL police are like that.
I can assure you that these stories of police not doing their job (rightly or wrongly) have a far greater effect than those where police do a great job.
Instead of telling people that police 'wont do anything' making the victim reluctant to make a complaint, actively encourage people to make a report instead (if you really care about them).

There is a thing called the 'victims charter', this is where the police have to keep the victim updated on the progress of their report/complaint. If you don't get an update ASK for one. Don't just sit there thinking that the police aren't doing anything.
Most police are still VERY passionate about investigating 'real' crime, that is why they become solo (sexual offence liaison officers) trained or work within that department. The problem is they may only be 2 or 3 working in there and have a lot of jobs come in, so an historical case from several months ago may not be dealt with as quickly as an on going child abuse case, but will get dealt with.
If you are unsure how a case is progressing then ASK, you also have a responsibility to help yourself don't forget.
If you are still not happy with what is being done then go higher, don't just let it rest with the officer in the case, let his/her bosses know.

As for spending more money on speeders than they do on crime, that is totally ridiculous. Firstly, speed camera are self generating, so pay for themselves out of the money they gather. Secondly this money goes to the government for them to use as they see fit and not the police force. In fact I know a lot of forces that don't even have ANY static speed cameras AT ALL. Ok, they have the boxes, but they don't have any cameras in them due to the cuts.


In my experience the police automatically close cases after n days if they feel they can't solve them quickly. They now send you nice text messages with your crime number in and then call you a few days later to say we're closing the case. What truly excellent service!

I know of one case where the model did go to the police after she was tied up in a room and left crying for hours. The police said they could do nothing as they had no way of knowing if it was supposed to be part of the shoot and it would be the model's word against the photographer's. Thus they took no further action.

I think he must sell some of the scenes and the models must be signing releases, so... how would the police be able to prove the scenes weren't consented to by the model? I know of one model who was booked for solo and ended up doing b/g simply because the photographer said it was part of the shoot. She didn't say no and signed a release at the end of the shoot.


Andy is off-line
29 July 2013 05:04
photostore
Photographer
photostore
Location
United Kingdom
Fife
fife based, but Scotland wide

I imagine any police officer who's a member on here would have a moral duty to report this thread to the relevant area/force would'nt they ? Surely then they would have to act and take statements ? as sarge says, if it's reported they cant just ignore it
lets get shootin


Durham Photographics is off-lineSilver Member
29 July 2013 05:23
Sarge
Photographer
Sarge
Location
United Kingdom
County Durham


Quote from photostore
I imagine any police officer who's a member on here would have a moral duty to report this thread to the relevant area/force would'nt they ? Surely then they would have to act and take statements ? as sarge says, if it's reported they cant just ignore it



We all have a moral obligation to report incidents.
Put it another way, imagine if you KNEW someone local to you was a child enticer/groomer/molester, would you think it acceptable to put it all over the internet for people to see in the hope that one of them would report it on your behalf or would you think reporting it to the authorities yourself was the better course of action? Is it always 'someone elses' responsibility?


HowardJ is off-line
29 July 2013 05:32
HowardJ
Photographer
HowardJ
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey
West Midlands

Did the model in Iain's blog post sign a model release at the end of the shoot or did she walk out in shock and disgust and go to the police with evidence of the sexual assault having taken place?


Andy is off-line
29 July 2013 05:38
photostore
Photographer
photostore
Location
United Kingdom
Fife
fife based, but Scotland wide

Quote from HowardJ
Did the model in Iain's blog post sign a model release at the end of the shoot or did she walk out in shock and disgust and go to the police with evidence of the sexual assault having taken place?



Regardless of the answer to that Howard, surely even if she signed it, she was most probably in shock at the time, confused, adrenaline coursing through her, i hardly think she would have been in a fit state and able to formulate a coherent sentance never mind realise what she was signing for.
lets get shootin


Seductress is off-line
29 July 2013 05:43
Seductress
Model
Seductress
Location
United Kingdom
Dorset
Bournemouth

Thank you to Fizzy & Honesty for also sharing you experiences. Fizzy I applaud your courage to put up a negative reference. If more people chose to do so rather than simply keeping their heads down this would work better. I can only imagine that they must think of the future work they would lose out on by speaking out and *causing problems* which is very sad.
--- You laugh at me for being different... I laugh at you for being the same ---


Seductress is off-line
29 July 2013 05:46
Seductress
Model
Seductress
Location
United Kingdom
Dorset
Bournemouth

Quote from photostore
Regardless of the answer to that Howard, surely even if she signed it, she was most probably in shock at the time, confused, adrenaline coursing through her, i hardly think she would have been in a fit state and able to formulate a coherent sentance never mind realise what she was signing for.




I can relate to that one. See my unfortunate story on page 5. I don't really remember much except wandering down to reception afterwards and then getting home. I don't really remember getting on the train home but I must have! I might have signed some kind of model release too. Can't remember. Bet I'm not the only one too

--- You laugh at me for being different... I laugh at you for being the same ---


Durham Photographics is off-lineSilver Member
29 July 2013 06:06
Sarge
Photographer
Sarge
Location
United Kingdom
County Durham


Quote from Sarge


We all have a moral obligation to report incidents.
Put it another way, imagine if you KNEW someone local to you was a child enticer/groomer/molester, would you think it acceptable to put it all over the internet for people to see in the hope that one of them would report it on your behalf or would you think reporting it to the authorities yourself was the better course of action? Is it always 'someone elses' responsibility?



Just to follow on from this...

I can understand a victim not wanting to report it due to various reasons, like being scared, embarrassed, upset, disappointed in themselves and the photographer, being in fear (of not being believed, retaliations or what their family will say/feel), disgusted, angry, shocked.

They may then tell someone, a friend, a stranger, another model/photographer.
Why do they do this? is it because they need to get it off their chests as it could be eating away at them and hope for some guidance and encouragement? If that guidance is 'well the police wont do anything' is that the correct message to be putting forward to someone who may be crying out for help?



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