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Andy is off-line
28 July 2013 16:41
photostore
Photographer
photostore
Location
United Kingdom
Fife
fife based, but Scotland wide

Howard, The difference may only be in the number of incidents,if the stories are true ? and the latest one Iain Knows of ! plus the fact he is accused, tried and convicted, of one of the worst crimes anyone can commit in our society, yet people are still working with him.
How can any female ( Model or Photographer) possibly bring themselves to work with him ? directly or indirectly,knowing his past history, do they believe he is innocent ? reformed ? no longer a danger ? I'd really like to hear from those who work with him. Im curious as to how you justify it/ignore it ?
Is a good pay day really enough to draw a veil over it ?

And no it is never acceptable to assault anyone, and dropping them in front of models (without consent...flashing) has i'd imagine the usual possible outcome if reported.
lets get shootin


HowardJ is off-line
28 July 2013 16:58
HowardJ
Photographer
HowardJ
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey
West Midlands

I wonder what kind of feedback he'd have if he was a member on here. I suspect mostly positive as he pays well and if you're assertive he leaves you alone.


Andy is off-line
28 July 2013 17:08
photostore
Photographer
photostore
Location
United Kingdom
Fife
fife based, but Scotland wide

Quote from HowardJ
I wonder what kind of feedback he'd have if he was a member on here. I suspect mostly positive as he pays well and if you're assertive he leaves you alone.



You are probably spot on ! 

lets get shootin


28 July 2013 17:12
Honesty
Model
This member has been suspended


+1

No smoke without fire... and there's a thread I think in models private 20 pages long on here. Or there was and that's not counting those who have simply taken hush money. The fact that I can refuse to shoot without the slightest argument from agents more or less proves that we all know it happens.

So let's not say "if it's true" as if models are just picking on him or something.

For most models, well you have to admit sometimes we have to have incredible "constitutions" to do what we do. I'm not excusing those who go this far. I think it's awful. In the vast majority of complaints the models have been in their 20's and so although it's not any better you'd think they'd have done at least a little snooping. An 18 year old though? She had no chance. I do question why she's still with her agent. I'd have taken myself elsewhere by now. Once the trust is broken it's broken. I can think of a few other things I'd have broken too....



Seductress is off-line
28 July 2013 17:45
Seductress
Model
Seductress
Location
United Kingdom
Dorset
Bournemouth

I read the blog, I'm shocked but not surprised. My thoughts go out to the young lady concerned and anybody else who may have fallen foul of this. Agencies should not be sending models in the direction of this person/company - to do so is disgusting and playing with peoples lives. Simply to say "if you're assertive you'll be fine" is no excuse.I don't care what the rates of pay are, nobody deserves to be treated with that amount of disrespect.

I've not worked with the person/company but I have been in same situation. I was on a shoot, quite early into my way down this path.

I had been contacted by a photographer from another site, who had seen my folio on there. He didn't have a folio himself - claiming it went south when his laptop blew up. He had no refs either - because he was just starting out. I SHOULD have had alarm bells ringing like crazy. But being green to it all (despite being 27) I didn't think of it. I arrived at the shoot with my (now ex) husband along, as we'd travelled some distance. The shoot was to take place in a well known hotel chain by a large airport; John waited in reception, and I promised to check in regularly as I had my phone with me. When I went to check in after the first hour I had no phone signal, but it was only to be a 3 hour shoot so I didn't worry too much. 2 hours in things went wrong for me. Like the young woman mentioned I did not consent but I also did not fight back. I got caught up like a rabbit in the headlights, too scared to know what to do. Thankfully the shoot ended and I went back downstairs to go home.

I didn't mention it to John that evening. In fact he still does no know what happened on that shoot. Many of my close friends do and now so do you all. I was worried he would ban me from shooting anymore. I also blamed myself for not doing the checks I really should have. I blamed myself for not fighting back or simply getting the hell out of there. I didn't report it. I feared that it would not be taken seriously. I was on a shoot working up to full frontal nude. I thought I'd be seen like I was asking for it.

Since that time the photographer I worked with has contacted me just the once. I don't know how the hell he still had my number as it was over a year since that incident. He asked me about working with him, said he'd had great fun the last time. I was very nearly physically sick when that came through. I've seen a thread up on the other site, a model asking about this person I worked with, thought he was a timewaster and not intending shooting. I inboxed her and advised of my experience and not to bother replying to any enquiries made by him under ANY of his assumed names. The site removed all the private reference threads some time ago. And since this person has no profiles on the main sites it is impossible to leave any feedback about him. Even cautious feedback.

While I understand that these experiences may be very much in the minority it does not excuse it in any way, shape or form. It is shameful that anybody would continue to enable this to carry on by not speaking out.
--- You laugh at me for being different... I laugh at you for being the same ---


28 July 2013 18:01
Honesty
Model
This member has been suspended


Quote from Seductress
I read the blog, I'm shocked but not surprised. My thoughts go out to the young lady concerned and anybody else who may have fallen foul of this. Agencies should not be sending models in the direction of this person/company - to do so is disgusting and playing with peoples lives. Simply to say "if you're assertive you'll be fine" is no excuse.I don't care what the rates of pay are, nobody deserves to be treated with that amount of disrespect.

I've not worked with the person/company but I have been in same situation. I was on a shoot, quite early into my way down this path.

I had been contacted by a photographer from another site, who had seen my folio on there. He didn't have a folio himself - claiming it went south when his laptop blew up. He had no refs either - because he was just starting out. I SHOULD have had alarm bells ringing like crazy. But being green to it all (despite being 27) I didn't think of it. I arrived at the shoot with my (now ex) husband along, as we'd travelled some distance. The shoot was to take place in a well known hotel chain by a large airport; John waited in reception, and I promised to check in regularly as I had my phone with me. When I went to check in after the first hour I had no phone signal, but it was only to be a 3 hour shoot so I didn't worry too much. 2 hours in things went wrong for me. Like the young woman mentioned I did not consent but I also did not fight back. I got caught up like a rabbit in the headlights, too scared to know what to do. Thankfully the shoot ended and I went back downstairs to go home.

I didn't mention it to John that evening. In fact he still does no know what happened on that shoot. Many of my close friends do and now so do you all. I was worried he would ban me from shooting anymore. I also blamed myself for not doing the checks I really should have. I blamed myself for not fighting back or simply getting the hell out of there. I didn't report it. I feared that it would not be taken seriously. I was on a shoot working up to full frontal nude. I thought I'd be seen like I was asking for it.

Since that time the photographer I worked with has contacted me just the once. I don't know how the hell he still had my number as it was over a year since that incident. He asked me about working with him, said he'd had great fun the last time. I was very nearly physically sick when that came through. I've seen a thread up on the other site, a model asking about this person I worked with, thought he was a timewaster and not intending shooting. I inboxed her and advised of my experience and not to bother replying to any enquiries made by him under ANY of his assumed names. The site removed all the private reference threads some time ago. And since this person has no profiles on the main sites it is impossible to leave any feedback about him. Even cautious feedback.

While I understand that these experiences may be very much in the minority it does not excuse it in any way, shape or form. It is shameful that anybody would continue to enable this to carry on by not speaking out.



I fought back one of mine and got choked half to death with a belt. If another model hadn't walked in and hauled him off I'd probably be dead. We tied him up and gave him a kicking. But it does make you think what's up with all these other bitchass models. Belt guy was working at the studio we were shooting at so no refs to leave. Photographer fired him. Well done on letting the other girl know. Respect!


Fizzy is off-line
28 July 2013 18:52
fizzy
Model
fizzy
Location
United Kingdom
Tyne and Wear
Newcastle upon Tyne

Seductress, I'm so sorry to hear of your experience. Not fighting back or not saying no does not make it your fault and does not make rape any less of a disgusting, violent act. It's very common for victims of these kind of crimes to freeze. It's the body and mind's way of trying to protect itself.

However, on the back of this, I've decided to leave negative feedback for a photographer who is a notorious level pusher. I worked with him when I was brand new and was too cowed by his reputation to speak up for all these years. I know there will be repercussions because he's quite unstable when he doesn't get his own way, but I won't let other women be abused by him if my speaking up might prevent it. I just hope the moderators don't remove my feedback when he,inevitably, complains.
Art nude model - £35ph


Tempus Fugit is off-lineSilver Member
29 July 2013 01:38
pinkbuildingphotography
Photographer
pinkbuildingphotography
Location
United Kingdom
Tayside


Quote from HowardJ
It's almost like photography is being used as a cover.




It is not like.

Photography is being used as a cover for assault.

There was a Scottish photographer that was convicted recently.

However he got a stupidly low sentance.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-19413001

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-20205227

However if this issue is outed as a problem and more people complain, then the predators who act like this will then be less likely to come here looking for victims.
Riding on the Gotterdammerung. Down and down she goes. Where she stops no one knows.


Tempus Fugit is off-lineSilver Member
29 July 2013 02:03
pinkbuildingphotography
Photographer
pinkbuildingphotography
Location
United Kingdom
Tayside


Quote from photostore
Howard, The difference may only be in the number of incidents,if the stories are true ?

and the latest one Iain Knows of ! plus the fact he is accused, tried and convicted, of one of the worst crimes anyone can commit in our society, yet people are still working with him. How can any female ( Model or Photographer) possibly bring themselves to work with him ? directly or indirectly,knowing his past history, do they believe he is innocent ? reformed ? no longer a danger ? I'd really like to hear from those who work with him. Im curious as to how you justify it/ignore it ? Is a good pay day really enough to draw a veil over it ? And no it is never acceptable to assault anyone, and dropping them in front of models (without consent...flashing) has i'd imagine the usual possible outcome if reported.




Photostore

I have issue with the gender specific way that you have said female. I think that the question is how can anyone work for him or buy his products if they know the history?

I do not know.

However I would not buy his products or work with him, given the history, and more to the point the circumstantial rumours that have appeared regularly since his release, that I have read here and on another site.

However that is my choice.  I am an amatuer, so my income does not rely on photography.

If I was a professional and relied on photography for income and a customer was offering good rates, the rent was due, I am not sure whether I would make the same choice.

I like to think that I would, however I am not sure that I would.

David
Riding on the Gotterdammerung. Down and down she goes. Where she stops no one knows.


Iain Thomson is off-linePlatinum Member
29 July 2013 02:19
IainT
Photographer
IainT
Location
United Kingdom
Bedfordshire


Quote from HowardJ
I'm sure this matter has been raised a number of times on other forums by customers of the company and other producers and nothing has ever happened. It's very well known about by both models and photographers.

What's different this time round?

How is it different to other members of this site who are well known to offer payments for extras while they've got their pants down in front of the model?

Or indeed other people who run well known websites who have sexually assaulted models in the past even while another model is in the next room of their apartment studio?



Because nothing has happened in the past are you saying we should say oh well, if someone has got away with something for 40 years, lets just let him get on with it, because there is obviously nothing can be done.

Its no different from the circumstances you mention other than perhaps in frequency and the fact so many people are aware of the ifdentity of a particular offender.
I tend to be a modest man, but then I do have a lot to be modest about.



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