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Pict is off-line
27 July 2013 07:17
Pict
Photographer
Pict
Location
United Kingdom
Kent
Rochester

It seems to me to be a very courageous and laudable blog. However it concerns me that there seems to be a view that to report a serious sexual assault would inevitably lead to a, what he said vs what she said, investigation. There is much more that can and would be investigated.

However difficult it would be for her and as someone who has two teenage daughters I accept it would be extremely difficult, she should have been/be encouraged to report the crime.
The vast majority of the victims that have come forward in the celebrity cases recently have done so because they have felt their accounts would be taken seriously but someone needs to blow a whistle at some point. It is not the case that the predator would have to admit their crime.

I'd also take issue with the focus of some of your attentions (the agent). I doubt very much that the victim feels more anger towards them than the person who perpetrated the crime and so maybe your own views should be set aside for them to make their own decision..

Please don't misread this as an attack on you Iain, far from it. Well done indeed for highlighting this person to those of us who weren't aware. Just my take on your view on part of the story.


27 July 2013 07:32
Socialdisaster
Photographer


Good to see this post, though I managed to read it before on Other Site where I assume it was either removed by force or by agreement.
Modesty is just arrogance in stealth mode


Iain Thomson is off-linePlatinum Member
27 July 2013 08:06
IainT
Photographer
IainT
Location
United Kingdom
Bedfordshire


Quote from myshoot
It seems to me to be a very courageous and laudable blog. However it concerns me that there seems to be a view that to report a serious sexual assault would inevitably lead to a, what he said vs what she said, investigation. There is much more that can and would be investigated.

However difficult it would be for her and as someone who has two teenage daughters I accept it would be extremely difficult, she should have been/be encouraged to report the crime.
The vast majority of the victims that have come forward in the celebrity cases recently have done so because they have felt their accounts would be taken seriously but someone needs to blow a whistle at some point. It is not the case that the predator would have to admit their crime.

I'd also take issue with the focus of some of your attentions (the agent). I doubt very much that the victim feels more anger towards them than the person who perpetrated the crime and so maybe your own views should be set aside for them to make their own decision..

Please don't misread this as an attack on you Iain, far from it. Well done indeed for highlighting this person to those of us who weren't aware. Just my take on your view on part of the story.



I dont take it as an attack at all, but perhaps it would help if I explain myself.

I have first hand experience of industry related sexual assaults being reported. Evidence is difficult, nigh on impossible to obtain due to the circumstances in which they are committed, it differs from assaults outwith the industry and means about the only evidence potentially available are the testimonies from the parties present, almost exclusivelly the victim and the assailant. Therefore, I cannot say to any individual you should report it, that would be placing her in a situation of more distress with little hope of a positive outcome.

HOWEVER, I did link to the Moorov Doctrine and have stated on numerious occassions that if victims would come together and make a joint complaint, then the chances of a successful prosecution would increase 100 fold. It is a very realistic way forward but it would take a brave victim to take the lead and make it happen, at present there seems to be no will to do this.

Of course any serving Police Officer reading this could pass the details of both this thread and my blog to the appropriate department within the force area where the offences were committed and if there was any genuine will within the Police in that area to do something, I'm sure they would contact me.

On your second point, any particular agent is not the focus of my attentions by any means, however as a particular agent may be a major cog in the wheel in that they may have access to new models with no experience and could effectivelly habitually and deliberately places them in a situation whereby they may be assaulted, then yes I think in certain circumstances an agent could be as guilty as the perpetrator and in law probably is.

As for particular victims. If you have not met them it would be difficult for you to interpret the dynamic. A victim would be upset by the assault of course, but she may also be particularly angry that she was placed in that position initially. Had her agent warned her, the assault could have been avoided and she could still have got the fat fee.

Unfortunately this is how a number of models think, if they are safe and can collect a big pay day, the circumstances of the work or whom is the paymaster is irrelevant. And evidence suggests that often should a model be aware of where she is going and how to act, then an assault is unlikely to occur.
I tend to be a modest man, but then I do have a lot to be modest about.


27 July 2013 09:12
GrimeAndGlamour
Photographer


Iain, would you mind if I linked your blogpost on my Facebook page?
We have a 'photographer' up here is one step away from this and I would hope at least one model would read it and take the possibilities on board.

Thank you in advance.
"I wont give in until I have complained about everything"


Iain Thomson is off-linePlatinum Member
27 July 2013 09:38
IainT
Photographer
IainT
Location
United Kingdom
Bedfordshire


Quote from GrimeAndGlamour
Iain, would you mind if I linked your blogpost on my Facebook page?
We have a 'photographer' up here is one step away from this and I would hope at least one model would read it and take the possibilities on board.

Thank you in advance.



Yes, sure...that also goes for anyone else who wants to link to it..
I tend to be a modest man, but then I do have a lot to be modest about.


Rich G is off-line
27 July 2013 09:55
SMILESPHOTO
Photographer
SMILESPHOTO
Location
United Kingdom
Kent


As far as I'm concerned, the agent who sent this poor girl to this guy in the knowledge of what he was like and without warning her is guilty of conspiracy to rape.

Good for you for bringing this issue to other's attention Iain - if only one aspiring model reads it and avoids the guy then that's a great result. As usual, your post was articulately written and reasoned - you are a credit to the modelling and photographic industry.
HAPPY TO WORK UP TO OPEN WALLET LEVELS


Paul Hodson is off-line
27 July 2013 10:47
mph
Photographer
mph
Location
United Kingdom
Cheshire
Crewe

There has probably never been a better time to make a complaint - the profile of such cases is extremely high at the moment following the recent court cases and indeed those still to be heard. Be a brave police force who did not take a complaint seriously now. Still very difficult though, I accept.

The Moorov doctrine probably only applies in Scotland
Amateur - happy to do TF with models with potential and enthusiasm. Website: www.mphodson.co.uk


Iain Thomson is off-linePlatinum Member
27 July 2013 11:41
IainT
Photographer
IainT
Location
United Kingdom
Bedfordshire


Quote from mph
There has probably never been a better time to make a complaint - the profile of such cases is extremely high at the moment following the recent court cases and indeed those still to be heard. Be a brave police force who did not take a complaint seriously now. Still very difficult though, I accept.

The Moorov doctrine probably only applies in Scotland



The Moorov Doctrine per se is applicable by name in Scots law as it refers to a stated case and was the first conviction based on corroborative evidence by victims of a common assailant occurring at different times, although each assault was uncoroborated, it was held the similarity of the testimony from each victim was corroboration in itself.

As far as I'm aware the principle applies equally in England and other parts of the UK and convictions have been secured on this basis.
I tend to be a modest man, but then I do have a lot to be modest about.


G Jack B is off-line
27 July 2013 12:01
Plymjack
Photographer
Plymjack
Location
United Kingdom
Devon
Plymouth

I too would support you in this and offer my £100. It would be a very small price to pay.

You are correct that most people in "the industry" and many of us who are on the fringes know of the person you highlight - and yes everyone in the industry should protect models from such predators.

Well done for your stance.
Real Bread Cook by day, BTL landlord & IT Guru - who said men can't multitask!


Christopher Vian-Smith is off-lineSilver Member
27 July 2013 13:51
ChrisVS
Photographer
ChrisVS
Location
United Kingdom
London
London

Quote from GrimeAndGlamour
Iain, would you mind if I linked your blogpost on my Facebook page? We have a 'photographer' up here is one step away from this and I would hope at least one model would read it and take the possibilities on board. Thank you in advance.



Well.... I think you're being very brave. So I have posted it on my Facebook page. Hopefully if enough models come forward, the Police will have to take action.


www.chrisvs.com



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