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What do you think of TFP Group Shoots? Good or Bad Things ?

Strober is off-line
30 June 2013 15:24
Strober
Photographer
Strober
Location
United Kingdom
Cheshire
Manchester

Quote from Spike
Must admit found organising them a thankless task.



We know, so what's this dance card thing all about first time i've heard of it today
www.strober.co.uk


Chrissie Red is off-line
30 June 2013 19:15
Chrissie_Red
Model
Chrissie_Red
Location
United Kingdom
Tayside
Perthshire

From a models point of view I HATE them.

For a various reasons, part of the enjoyment in modelling is actually getting to know the people you are working with so you are best able to capture what they are after. If you don't get the chance to speak to them then you don't know what they want (and if you have 26 people to work with on a conveyor belt type scenario it would be impossible). If you are in a small'ish area then chances are all photographers there will get very similar shots even if they are not shooting at the same time, there is only so much you can do on a window ledge before I get bored as a model and want to move on.

Another thing is that if you have more than one shooter (none of which you trust or know) then you are more conservative with posing for that group. Another negative is not being able to check the people who you will be working withs previous work or references. This is something that is extremely important to me now, being able to ask other models if the photographer was a nice person to be around is paramount.

If on a tf shoot then you wont want to be confronted with the "Chrissie_Red is a naughty person ty" photographer putting you on the spot asking for a shoot and having to bluntly say no thanks. There is no way not to cause offence at this. .

I did a paid one while ago, and although it was nice to put some names to faces I honestly can't remember more than half of the people I worked with. Should another model ask me for a reference I wouldn't have a clue who the person was or what they would be like to work with. I also don't remember getting any breaks other than a lunch break - I didn't even have time to nip to the toilet to touch up my makeup (or see to a cut I had on my bottom which was bleeding).

Its also the only time I've actually felt really uncomfortable with how a photographer spoken/touched me - you would have thought with a room full of people then this sort of Chrissie_Red is a naughty person wouldn't happen.... but it did! and I wasn't the only model who experienced it that day (by different photographers).

I work best in small groups where there is a chance to have a chat/ touch up makeup or change hairstyles along the way. I don't think its the right environment to produce outstanding images.

I would tell any newer models and photographers to AVOID such events and just work with people on a one to one basis!


Andy is off-line
30 June 2013 19:30
photostore
Photographer
photostore
Location
United Kingdom
Fife
fife based, but Scotland wide

Sorry to hear you had to work with an arse Chrissie, quite surprised your not relating how swollen your knuckles are from beating him about the head and face ? Not like you to tolerate crap.

anyway, CFBS (coffee for background support) i need to get this back to you, if you still want it ? Don't say i hav'nt tried ! (PM me)
Sorry for the thread hijack !
lets get shootin


Spike is off-line
30 June 2013 19:49
Spike
Photographer
Spike
Location
United Kingdom
Hertfordshire
St Albans

Quote from Strober
We know, so what's this dance card thing all about first time i've heard of it today



Basicly photographers have a set list of models they are working with in allocated time slots  not unlike victorian dance cards http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dance_card


"Photoshop is there to cut diamonds, not polish turds"


David Heels is off-line
01 July 2013 09:24
Crippen
Photographer
Crippen
Location
United Kingdom
South Yorkshire
Sheffield

I've been on a few over the years, and most of them have been great fun. I've met some great people, and I've even booked a couple of models I've met at group shoots, for proper paid work.

I agree with Andy and Spike, the dance card system is the way to go. For one thing, it helps avoid the rugby scrum scenario, and secondly, the number of models who actually turn up, appears to increase with this method. (Although you should always expect a certain percentage to no shows - it's inevitable).

With the dance card system, you know who you are shooting in advance of the day, therefore, you have a chance to exchange ideas, talk about clothing, etc. before hand. Which also alleviates some of Chrissie's complaints.

The downside is, as well as your first choice dance partners, you might have to shoot with someone you wouldn't normally go near. The gothic male model with the bad acne, for instance, or the myopic photographer with the bad breath, who only wants to photograph your feet. But perhaps that's part of the fun of it.

Dave
PS. For more info on Dance Cards, mail me, I'll attempt to put you in touch with Pam (Slipland) Queen of the dance card.


Strober is off-line
01 July 2013 13:38
Strober
Photographer
Strober
Location
United Kingdom
Cheshire
Manchester

Peeps, I'm not ignoring you, just busy as I've got allot of photo work to get through, but I appreciate the honest posts here and I'll read every post soon in order to play catch up. After that then I'll give my in depth reply.

But from what I'm reading at the minute, then the problems appears to lye with us togs and not the mods. Don't quote me on this as again I'll give and indepth reply later once I've cached up with you all.

Gaz aka Strober
www.strober.co.uk


OldMaster is off-line
02 July 2013 15:44
OldMaster
Photographer
OldMaster
Location
United Kingdom
Hertfordshire
Harpenden

I am sure everyone has their own views. If I am working with a model it has to be one to one because I am shooting to achieve a specific result and don't wish to have any other distractions. The chemistry build up required negates each individual to relate and focus on the task in hand.

However, I have mentored group shoots at studios with groups of up to six togs and they have been successful I believe. Usually my format is to do a bit of instruction first on the technical, lighting, settings, etc and may be using the model to help with the demonstrations. This has the additional benefit of establishing a rapport between the assembled photographers and the model as well as.

The photographers are given individual time, or may be in pairs, to work with the model, with instruction if required on hand. Those waiting were able to continue to ask questions and come up with some of their own ideas for posing/lighting/etc.

I believe this can lead to some excellent results with some individuality to the images as opposed to the pack of photographers system which usually fails to tick any of the boxes?


Matthew G is off-line
02 July 2013 18:22
MG
Photographer
MG
Location
United Kingdom
Warwickshire


I went on one a few years ago... I got just the shots that I was after... Mainly because the shots that I was after were a large group of people with cameras all shooting at once. Got some really good shots of them all.... However just a personal preference but it kind of reminded me of a press job I had about ten years ago photographing Lucy Pinder when there were about 50 press photographers all trying to get the same shot of her. It just leaves you with a headache! A similar feeling to group shoots... But each to their own and I understand some new models and togs do it on here in order to get lots of feedback all at once...


03 July 2013 02:44
Lisaliz
Model


I have been to quite a few! I have enjoyed them a great deal and been lucky enough to make fantastic friends who reappear at the same shoots over the years. I have also worked at wonderful locations which would not normally be available.

The key to success is meticulous organisation involving dance cards. Having said that, there was one sociable relaxed gathering in Southend which worked out well, but people tended to know each other. The main problems for the organisers are excluding what Chrissie Red would describe as arses, and getting models who aren't going to flake. It is extremely hard work for the organisers and will give them grey hairs. It is also completly exhausting for the models! But at best a lot of fun.


Strober is off-line
03 July 2013 12:12
Strober
Photographer
Strober
Location
United Kingdom
Cheshire
Manchester



Right Boys & Girls, first thing is first please have a look at the above photograph and please also note that this is NOT a Model and instead it's simply just a member of the public that I did shoot whilst I was out doing some Street Photography with another Photographer Alastair Padgett. Likewise if you click on the link below then you will be greeted with my new PDF Document which includes many more of the photographs that I took of just normal members of the public looking but making them look like “Models” at the same time. Note this PDF Document is in my opinion very important to this thread in order for me to get my point across to everyone.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2VXMezEjVs1ZTFJLVdoNzF5eU0/edit?usp=sharing

I've had a good read from start to end of all the posts and I have absorbed everything it is that you have all said to me / each other up onto now and from your feedback then it does appear to me that it's not because of “Bad Weather” at all that stops people coming out to group shoots. As you have all clearly stated that the then problems appears to lie with the photographers. Some of your examples are as follows.

1) to many photographers competing for models attention
2) the ratio of tog compared to mod
3) not having enough time to set up lighting / changing the set
4) some togs having an over zealous attitude to the entitlement of which model it is that they work with.
5) Not being able to put in your own creativity to the GS hence you not learning anything.
6) Photographers touching Models up in spite of them being in a public space etc....

So again can we all agree here that the main problem with TF Group Shoots, is that previous “Photographers have giving the whole TF GS thing a bad name”, which sees Models avoid these kind of events ?

My next question is this, can the whole TF GS thing be fixed ? Or would that too just be a complete waste of time in order to do so ?

The reason why I decided to organize my own GS Event is because for me the my photography has hit a very important stage in it's life. This stage being that I have now acquired new skills which now allow me to advance to a higher level than what my photography was originally on before. But in order to get to that higher level then I must be able to produce professional looking images of people in order to get there i.e. hence working with Models etc...

I thought that doing TF GS would be a great way to do achieve all this, well in fact I thought that the whole TF thing was in general. But now I'm not to sure, since Monday (01.07.2013) something happened to me and as now become a complete “game changer”. I went out on a Street Photography shoot with Alistair Padgett in Manchester and when I came home I had over a 100 images of people who could in my books pass off as being “Models”, when in fact they were all simply people going about doing their own business i.e. to work or going shopping or were even having their lunch etc... etc... again if you have not yet seen my PDF document, then I highly recommend that you visit the link above to see what it is that I'm talking about (Some of these “members of the public” look as if they should be in the Next Directory catalogue).

My own personal experience of TF is telling me that it is a complete waste of time in addition to being thankless. Don't get me wrong sometimes TF does work but for me 95% of the time it's a waste of my time and in some cases even the Models time.

Doing the whole Street Photography thing this Monday showed me that it will do 2 very BIG IMPORTANT things for me this is 1) Boost my “CONFIDENCE” with regards to working with complete and utter strangers. 2) Will keep my photographer skills nice and sharp e.g. getting adjusted to working with my kit again as I was getting rusty and forgetting how to operate some of it.

I'm going to look into the whole “Dance Card” side of things but to be honest with everyone then Im' not going to be keeping all my eggs in one basket with that one, because then there is the thankless task of organizing another GS (don't get me wrong, I will be organizing another one, but I'm just not in a rush to do so, I'll plan another one once I've got time to waste .

Right I've rambled on a bit here, so I'll stop but again guys the whole Street Photography game appears to be the answer to helping me get on the next level with regards to my Photography.

Thanks for reading

Gaz aka Strober

PS: Here is a buddy shot of Alistair with his Canon on Monday

www.strober.co.uk



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