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Hogging the middle lane on the M1

Bill Haley is off-lineSilver Member
06 June 2013 14:54
pompeytog
Photographer
pompeytog
Location
United Kingdom
Hampshire
Portsmouth

To those who are taking the amateur policeman line. Remember that all speedometers are not accurate and can be out either way by as much as 10 percent. So whilst you're tootalling along at 68mph in the middle lane when the left lane is empty, doing your fruit about the "inconsiderate pompeytog is a naughty person " who in your opinion is speeding, and wanting you to pull over so they can get past, they may only be doing 70mph and your speedo could be reading very low.

Heard some stupid old bat on the radio the other day, creating about drivers speeding and getting annoyed with her for centre lane hogging. Who is she to decide which highway code laws to abide by and which to break?

Use the left lane UNLESS overtaking, it really isn't that difficult. The reason so many collisions occur when changing lanes is because bloody idiot drivers don't bother checking mirrors as often as they should, signal too late if at all and don't plan ahead. If you can't handle changing lanes at speed safely then you don't deserve a driving licence.

How hard can it be?


Profile Pictures is off-line
07 June 2013 22:03
profilepictures
Photographer
profilepictures
Location
United Kingdom
Suffolk
Bury St Edmunds

When they introduce a law and road marking to match which prevents drivers from joining the dual carriageway without due note if the give way situation this requires, and similarly, the bloody fools who throw their cars right in courtesy or fear of joining traffic, that'd ease congestion and accidents. Also prevent overtaking of one hgv and another, it's a slower vehicle, bloody well stay in the left hand lane and use less fuel, disrupt flow less and stop the rolling roadblocks which frustrate and lead to various troubles.



07 June 2013 22:29
PaulManuell
Photographer


Quote from profilepictures
When they introduce a law and road marking to match which prevents drivers from joining the dual carriageway without due note if the give way situation this requires, and similarly, the bloody fools who throw their cars right in courtesy or fear of joining traffic, that'd ease congestion and accidents.





Ummm, eh, you what?


Paul Hodson is off-line
08 June 2013 01:54
mph
Photographer
mph
Location
United Kingdom
Cheshire
Crewe

Quote from profilepictures
When they introduce a law and road marking to match which prevents drivers from joining the dual carriageway without due note if the give way situation this requires, and similarly, the bloody fools who throw their cars right in courtesy or fear of joining traffic, that'd ease congestion and accidents. Also prevent overtaking of one hgv and another, it's a slower vehicle, bloody well stay in the left hand lane and use less fuel, disrupt flow less and stop the rolling roadblocks which frustrate and lead to various troubles.





First "sentence"

Second sentence. I can just see the queue if the first HGV is on a long journey and is only travelling at 30 mph.
Amateur - happy to do TF with models with potential and enthusiasm. Website: www.mphodson.co.uk


Steve Guy is off-line
08 June 2013 05:43
Sdeve
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Derbyshire
Derby

Quote from profilepictures
When they introduce a law and road marking to match which prevents drivers from joining the dual carriageway without due note if the give way situation this requires, and similarly, the bloody fools who throw their cars right in courtesy or fear of joining traffic, that'd ease congestion and accidents. Also prevent overtaking of one hgv and another, it's a slower vehicle, bloody well stay in the left hand lane and use less fuel, disrupt flow less and stop the rolling roadblocks which frustrate and lead to various troubles.





Err... they have such a law already. Those pretty dotted lines that divide the acceleration land from the main carriageway are give way lines. didn't you know?


Steve Guy is off-line
08 June 2013 06:02
Sdeve
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Derbyshire
Derby

As I understand the proposal, it is going to be possible for police officers to give out fixed penalties (a form of official bribe) for offences of driving without due care and attention or reasonable consideration. This would include lane hogging, tailgating, and other such un-named misdemeanours.

Two problems come to mind immediately. First, the absence of police patrols on motorways. It ain't illegal if nobody catches you. OK, there is a lot of camera coverage, but that may not work too well as far as fixed penalties go, as someone has to be looking at the damned cameras!

Second is proving the offence. Proving tailgating may be possible by adapting VASCAR, and a good thing that is too. Much better than my handbrake test, although that is pretty damned good. But proving middle lane hogging? OK, two miles of left lane being empty might do it. But so much of this is the driver making a decision on whether it is best to remain in the centre lane as there is slower traffic in front or to move into lane 1 (BTW, it's not slow lane, middle lane and overtaking lane, it's just lane 1,2,or 3.).

Now, here is the problem. speeds used as an illustration only. You are in lane 2 driving at a highly moral 70mph. Ahead of you, at some distance, is a line of vehicles in lane 1 driving at 65 mph. you have a choice of staying in lane 2 or returning to lane 1. But, either there is nothing behind you for any distance that is in any way gaining on you, in which case there can be no careless or inconsiderate driving if you stay in lane 2.

Or, if you move into lane 1, there is approaching from behind some person committing the criminal offence of driving faster than you (exceeding the speed limit is a criminal offence) who you will have to rely upon to move into lane 3 if you want to pull back into lane 2 in order to pass the slower vehicles I mentioned, a more dangerous option than forcing him to either move into lane 3 or slow down to a legal speed. Either choice could be justified in a court, making the issue of a fixed penalty a waste of time.

As a final thought, nothing in the Highway Code is a law. It often quotes the law, such as speed limits, but it is not a law, but a manual of good driving. As such, it's provisions can be used to show bad driving by the breach of it's advice. Nobody will ever be prosecuted for breaching section 12.2 of the Highway code (numbers for illustration only. God knows what it is, or even if it exists)


Steve Guy is off-line
08 June 2013 06:08
Sdeve
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Derbyshire
Derby

Quote from pompeytog
To those who are taking the amateur policeman line. Remember that all speedometers are not accurate and can be out either way by as much as 10 percent. So whilst you're tootalling along at 68mph in the middle lane when the left lane is empty, doing your fruit about the "inconsiderate Sdeve is a naughty person " who in your opinion is speeding, and wanting you to pull over so they can get past, they may only be doing 70mph and your speedo could be reading very low.

If you have a prattnav you can easily check your speedometer's accuracy and make the appropriate adjustment to your driving. Satnavs are so accurate that they have to take account of Einstein's theory of relativity, so I' certainly trust them.

Use the left lane UNLESS overtaking, it really isn't that difficult. The reason so many collisions occur when changing lanes is because bloody idiot drivers don't bother checking mirrors as often as they should, signal too late if at all and don't plan ahead. If you can't handle changing lanes at speed safely then you don't deserve a driving licence.





And if you are a good enough driver to decide that it is safer to remain in lane 2 rather than rely upon the good sense of a driver approaching from behind who has already decided not to obey the law on speed limits?


Neil Anderson is off-line
08 June 2013 06:39
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
Location
United Kingdom
London
West London

Quote from pompeytog
To those who are taking the amateur policeman line. Remember that all speedometers are not accurate and can be out either way by as much as 10 percent. So whilst you're tootalling along at 68mph in the middle lane when the left lane is empty, doing your fruit about the "inconsiderate stolenfaces is a naughty person " who in your opinion is speeding, and wanting you to pull over so they can get past, they may only be doing 70mph and your speedo could be reading very low.


If you're such a good driver that it is safe for you to poodle along at 90mph, surely you can move into the 3rd lane, even at 70 the only problem with moving into the 3rd lane is criminals driving fast enough to receive a ban if caught.
So why would they need to pull over to let you past ?

Quote from pompeytog
Heard some stupid old bat on the radio the other day, creating about drivers speeding and getting annoyed with her for centre lane hogging. Who is she to decide which highway code laws to abide by and which to break?


The Highway code isn't a law, certain parts of it are part of the criminal law. Speed Limits are specific, what constitutes overtaking is less clear. Are lorries which take it in turns to overtake each other at 61mph v 60mph (taking 15 minutes to pass) overtaking ? These rolling roadblock games are generally more dangerous /frustrating than a middle lane hogger.

Quote from pompeytog
Use the left lane UNLESS overtaking, it really isn't that difficult. The reason so many collisions occur when changing lanes is because bloody idiot drivers don't bother checking mirrors as often as they should, signal too late if at all and don't plan ahead. If you can't handle changing lanes at speed safely then you don't deserve a driving licence.



Changing lanes is inherently dangerous. However good your technique and ability, a poor driver on his mobile can still hit you. If you are so good and safe at changing lanes why do you have a problem with moving out into the 3rd lane if you find someone in the middle lane who is inconsiderately obeying the speed limit.

And there are a lot of motorway junctions where lane 1 becomes an exit lane, so you have to get out into the traffic breaking the speed limit in lane 2 if you don't pull out at an early opportunity.

If everyone drove all the time in the inside lane the road surface would need replacing more frequently (which is why some sections of the motorway have an inside lane which provides a similar driving experience to a farm track).
Like any dealer he was watching for the card that is so high and wild he'll never need to deal another...


Paul Hodson is off-line
08 June 2013 06:48
mph
Photographer
mph
Location
United Kingdom
Cheshire
Crewe

Quote from Sdeve
As I understand the proposal, it is going to be possible for police officers to give out fixed penalties (a form of official bribe) for offences of driving without due care and attention or reasonable consideration. This would include lane hogging, tailgating, and other such un-named misdemeanours. Two problems come to mind immediately. First, the absence of police patrols on motorways. It ain't illegal if nobody catches you. OK, there is a lot of camera coverage, but that may not work too well as far as fixed penalties go, as someone has to be looking at the damned cameras! Second is proving the offence. Proving tailgating may be possible by adapting VASCAR, and a good thing that is too. Much better than my handbrake test, although that is pretty damned good. But proving middle lane hogging? OK, two miles of left lane being empty might do it. But so much of this is the driver making a decision on whether it is best to remain in the centre lane as there is slower traffic in front or to move into lane 1 (BTW, it's not slow lane, middle lane and overtaking lane, it's just lane 1,2,or 3.). Now, here is the problem. speeds used as an illustration only. You are in lane 2 driving at a highly moral 70mph. Ahead of you, at some distance, is a line of vehicles in lane 1 driving at 65 mph. you have a choice of staying in lane 2 or returning to lane 1. But, either there is nothing behind you for any distance that is in any way gaining on you, in which case there can be no careless or inconsiderate driving if you stay in lane 2. Or, if you move into lane 1, there is approaching from behind some person committing the criminal offence of driving faster than you (exceeding the speed limit is a criminal offence) who you will have to rely upon to move into lane 3 if you want to pull back into lane 2 in order to pass the slower vehicles I mentioned, a more dangerous option than forcing him to either move into lane 3 or slow down to a legal speed. Either choice could be justified in a court, making the issue of a fixed penalty a waste of time. As a final thought, nothing in the Highway Code is a law. It often quotes the law, such as speed limits, but it is not a law, but a manual of good driving. As such, it's provisions can be used to show bad driving by the breach of it's advice. Nobody will ever be prosecuted for breaching section 12.2 of the Highway code (numbers for illustration only. God knows what it is, or even if it exists)



A good and sensible post! cheeky Despite understanding the idea of the the three lanes it does imply that lane 3 would only be used if you happened to be overtaking someone who was also overtaking at the time - and as everyone is driving at or above the speed limit at most times this is a highly unlikely scenario!

In practice it is inevitable that the lanes will be used as "slow", "over the speed limit" and "a lot over the speed limit"!
Amateur - happy to do TF with models with potential and enthusiasm. Website: www.mphodson.co.uk


Paul Hodson is off-line
08 June 2013 06:53
mph
Photographer
mph
Location
United Kingdom
Cheshire
Crewe

Quote from profilepictures
When they introduce a law and road marking to match which prevents drivers from joining the dual carriageway without due note if the give way situation this requires.





Quote from Sdeve
Err... they have such a law already. Those pretty dotted lines that divide the acceleration land from the main carriageway are give way lines. didn't you know?



Additionally if you drove leaving a sensible gap they could filter in. Unless this happens you will end up with stationary vehicles on slip roads trying to join busy roads with traffic travelling at 70 mph!
Amateur - happy to do TF with models with potential and enthusiasm. Website: www.mphodson.co.uk



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