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Are most models unreliable ?

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03 June 2013 08:01
Honesty
Model
This member has been suspended


Quote from Gerry99111


Whats arrogant about not being interested in rebooking someone who doesn't want to honour the original terms of the shoot.



It's just very black and white, perhaps the someone really does want to do the original shoot and is just as excited but feels that the pay offered is more beneficial (for me that'd be tf versus £200-600 so not exactly peanuts here) Having no lee way at all over a principle such as you suggest surely means the model loses a good photographer to work with, the photographer loses a good model to work with and a good concept falls by the wayside, and everyone gets grouchy and feels they've been mistreated in some way.

I try 100% to stick to my commitments, and if it was a case of £50-75 for a few hours clothed or something then I'd rather keep my reputation in tact and do the tf, if it's a three digit figure then that ironically opens up more time/space and money to shoot tf, or travel to photographers I want to work with who offer tf. I guess I only have one real no-go area and that's charity. Backing out of/No Showing on a charity shoot is utterly unthinkable.


Rich G is off-line
03 June 2013 15:49
SMILESPHOTO
Photographer
SMILESPHOTO
Location
United Kingdom
Kent


I'm prepared to bet that no-one commenting on this post has ever no-showed without a good reason. That's because the fact that we bother to care about what's said means we're committed to the modelling/photography industry. We might all have completely different views and perspectives and some of us might positively dislike each other but the one thing we all share is that commitment. My money is on the fact that those who let us down rarely post in forums because they lack that commitment. I've been let down over the years by both amateurs and professionals but they never appear in forum posts. I'm not saying that because you don't post means that you're unreliable but I am saying that those who regularly do are far more likely to not let others down.
HAPPY TO WORK UP TO OPEN WALLET LEVELS


Gerry is off-line
03 June 2013 16:08
Gerry99111
Photographer
Gerry99111
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey
Guildford

I agree but I also think it has something to do with the time verses money equation. People who do this because they primarily earn money from it or spend a lot of money and have a lot financially riding on a shoot [maybe studio hire] may be prepared to rearrange as cash [in or out] is the primary restriction.

I am being labelled as being quite inflexible by not offereing to re-schedule, but to me time is limiting factor.

I undertake a set number of shoots and control the budget tightly each year. I have a full time and demanding job and other commitments, so a failed shoot is very damaging to me in time but not cost.

Someone primarily doing this around budgets / income has a totally different set of drivers to someone doing it around time constraints, assuming they all have a decent and honourable approach
If you have to ask why I do it, you will never understand the reason why


03 June 2013 17:00
Honesty
Model
This member has been suspended


Quote from Gerry99111

I am being labelled as being quite inflexible by not offereing to re-schedule, but to me time is limiting factor.



I undertake a set number of shoots and control the budget tightly each year. I have a full time and demanding job and other commitments, so a failed shoot is very damaging to me in time but not cost.



Someone primarily doing this around budgets / income has a totally different set of drivers to someone doing it around time constraints, assuming they all have a decent and honourable approach



No hard feelings. As I think someone said there are loads of levels and reasons. I just get massively annoyed at all the anti-model negativity. I don't think for a second that models in general are any more or less reliable than photographers except that perhaps its in different ways other than purely being able to show up. When I'm hearing things like models only care about money, they no show cause they're hung over, I won't shoot cause of this that and the other. It is actually so disheartening that I just think why bother? nobody cares about the risks you are potentially taking, or how your life works or why you do it. Do a great job and thats that... catch a cold and there's a witch hunt!

Possibly no mods commenting cause these sort of threads can be so bad for morale.


Gerry is off-line
03 June 2013 17:17
Gerry99111
Photographer
Gerry99111
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey
Guildford

Quote from Honesty
No hard feelings. As I think someone said there are loads of levels and reasons. I just get massively annoyed at all the anti-model negativity. I don't think for a second that models in general are any more or less reliable than photographers except that perhaps its in different ways other than purely being able to show up. When I'm hearing things like models only care about money, they no show cause they're hung over, I won't shoot cause of this that and the other. It is actually so disheartening that I just think why bother? nobody cares about the risks you are potentially taking, or how your life works or why you do it. Do a great job and thats that... catch a cold and there's a witch hunt! Possibly no mods commenting cause these sort of threads can be so bad for morale.



LoL, I have got myself into plenty of trouble in the past going after the photographers who start threads complaining about models saying the fault almost certainly lies with the photographer - eg their port is not up to scratch, they maybe should be paying more, they may have communication / poor personality issues etc etc. eg my post from earlier in the thread:

Quote from Gerry99111
There are plenty of photographers who have no trouble finding and booking reliable models. They are fishing in the same pool of models being complained about. There are 1000's of pictures being uploaded weekly from shoots on peoples profiles successfully happenned. There are enough models who are either full time or would like to be who cannot get enough bookings. Something tells me the problem is not only down to models and could be: - approaching the wrong models [why even look at a profile where there has been no activity for weeks / months] - offering something of little interest to the model [eg TFP to a model who doesnt need your pictures] - approaching newbies [who may not have established if modelling is for them yet] - not having a port that would encourage / re-assure a model to take a booking [even a paid one]



I actually find the models I have booked have by and large been very good and reliable. I was just making the point that, on occasion, when one wants to rearrange, I find it very difficult to accommodate so the shoot will almost certainly have to be abandoned. Its one of the main reasons I hardly ever shoot models now who have to travel a long distance as these shoots often rely on the model getting other bookings from photographers nearby who themselves often cancelled leaving the model in the lurch and me unable to say shift the shoot a day.

I still think my inability to change shoots has its advantages. I never cancel or rearrange and always have backup plans for weather dependant shoots, so a booking with me wil always happen on the prescribed day often arranged 1 to 2 months in advance, so a model agreeing to a shoot with me will at least know nothing will get in the way of it happening - not many bookings can be said to be that certain
If you have to ask why I do it, you will never understand the reason why


03 June 2013 17:52
Honesty
Model
This member has been suspended


this isn't a wind up but I once had a tf arranged with a guy who "actively reported gwc's" who then suggested a bj would be appropriate and then didn't stop talking until he'd worked himself up to a full blown 3some. I would have stopped him at bj but I was laughing to hard to type straight. We get all sorts of conflicting statements and attitudes and you never can tell which statement takes precedence as an indicator of someone's attitude.

If it's inability to rearrange and not just having a tantrum then fair play.


Katie Soze is off-line
11 June 2013 14:29
katiesoze
Photographer
katiesoze
Location
United Kingdom
South Yorkshire


Yes


JacquiB is off-line
12 June 2013 10:39
JacquiB
Model

Location
United Kingdom
Cambridgeshire
Peterborough

The boot equally fits the other foot on this subject. Many photographers do not have the common courtesy to bother replying to messages either.
Personally I have never booked a shoot and not turned up, I on the other hand, have indeed been cancelled last minute (considerably out of pocket for items purchased specifically) and the shoot never re-booked.
Sorry swings and roundabouts, professional or ameteur, paid or tf really has no relevance in my personal experience. Sticking to the same models is great but then you don't necessarily get to work with some of the amazing talent that is out there.
Not all models are the same and should not be treated as such


davetee is off-line
15 June 2013 11:36
davetee
Photographer
davetee
Location
United Kingdom
Northamptonshire
Kettering

I've been messaging with a model who wanted to do a Marilyn Monroe style shoot. She was supposed to call today to arrange a meet over coffee to discuss. Did she call...did she hell...a total timewaster.
http://www.tyrerphotography.co.uk


Ashley Jayde is off-line
15 June 2013 13:26
AshlieJayde
Model

Location
United Kingdom
Lancashire
Manchester

Quote from JacquiB
The boot equally fits the other foot on this subject. Many photographers do not have the common courtesy to bother replying to messages either.
Personally I have never booked a shoot and not turned up, I on the other hand, have indeed been cancelled last minute (considerably out of pocket for items purchased specifically) and the shoot never re-booked.
Sorry swings and roundabouts, professional or ameteur, paid or tf really has no relevance in my personal experience. Sticking to the same models is great but then you don't necessarily get to work with some of the amazing talent that is out there.
Not all models are the same and should not be treated as such



I couldn't agree more with what you have said ..both models and photographers can be unreliable just the same as people can be in other professions can be. It's annoying and hurtful for people trying to make a living as time and money unfortunately gets wasted. But the answer is No... models or photographers for that matter are not unreliable but unfortunately some people in general are, as said previous; its just swings and roundabouts! But hey it comes with the job



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