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Two shoots this weekend, Two no shows

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18 April 2013 08:55
johnlp
Photographer


Hugh:

OR it weeds out those who aren't reliable; and because you are making assumptions, I'll inform you that those who are late because of transport problems get my complete sympathy if the keep me updated. It works well for me. Perhaps you should confine yourself to facts and not idle conjecture.


Hugh is off-lineGold Member
18 April 2013 09:29
Hugh
Photographer
Hugh
Location
United Kingdom
Dyfed
Aberystwyth

It was you that said you had 50% late cancellations.
I must admit, I did mistake that for "no shows".

That's OK then.

I've never had a late cancellation, and only ever had one "no show" - so I don't have your great experience.
It's not Fine Art just because it's in Black and White.


18 April 2013 10:05
johnlp
Photographer


Thanks Paul for the advice, but I think you're answering a problem that doesn't exist.

The shoots are perfectly ok. The original post was about cancellations.

The part of my profile that you quote was added about a year ago after I had a series of models turn up late, a couple even announcing, "It's ok I can work later", and then seemingly bemused when I said that I couldn't and I would have to shorten the shoot and reduce the fee. The final straw was a model who sent a text saying she was just getting on a train, 20 minutes before the shoot was due to start, and I knew the journey time was one hour. A significant number of models I work with comment that they've read this section and it doesn't phase them at all. If it has put off a few from applying for my castings, then fine, they're probably the ones who would have been late.

I really don't have a problem getting suitable models applying and accepting my castings. That part of my profile stays. But thanks for bothering to reply.


Neil Anderson is off-line
18 April 2013 10:06
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
Location
United Kingdom
London
West London

Quote from johnlp
Stloen Faces, perhaps you should follow Denis Thatcher's advice:

"Better keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it and remove all doubt."



I'd have to say that sort of attitude rather explains a poor success rate.
If you don't think there's anything wrong with your attitude then that's sad, but there's not much point in continually posting about how 'unlucky' you are.


Like any dealer he was watching for the card that is so high and wild he'll never need to deal another...


Paul Jones is off-line
18 April 2013 10:09
Paul_Jones
Photographer
Paul_Jones
Location
United Kingdom
Lancashire
Wigan

Quote from johnlp
Thanks Paul for the advice, but I think you're answering a problem that doesn't exist. 
That part of my profile stays. But thanks for bothering to reply.




OK, well thanks for taking it well. 
I often hesitate about offering advice as it can seem like you're sticking your nose in.  frown

www.PaulJones.org (Glamour / Portraits / NSFW)


18 April 2013 10:40
johnlp
Photographer


Quote from stolenfaces
I'd have to say that sort of attitude rather explains a poor success rate. If you don't think there's anything wrong with your attitude then that's sad, but there's not much point in continually posting about how 'unlucky' you are.



Your replies are really quite amusing; take this for example;

"If you are arranging so many shoots I suppose it must be difficult to be selective in your choices."

What are you really trying to say?  That I have to scrape the barrel to find enough models who will work with me?  I'm sure if any of them read this they might want to contact you personally so that you can comment on their suitability to be a model.

It is a nonsensical comment, but typical of your illogical thoughts.  "A poor success rate"?  I don't think an average of 70% success rate is particularly "poor".  On other posts other photographers have experienced similar rates.

The photographer who originated this post does not have to look at his own attitude for an answer.  He is no more responsible for models cancelling or no-showing than any other photographer.  It just happens.



Andrew Gibbins is off-line
01 May 2013 01:28
andrew_gibbins
Photographer
andrew_gibbins
Location
United Kingdom
South Yorkshire
Sheffield

John.

I understand your frustration over this, but it is not very uncommon in this industry unfortunately. It goes for photographers and models alike it seems. If you ask me, do not book a shoot if you are even a tiny bit unsure whether you can make it or not. Situations may arise of course, and there is a lot of good reasons for cancelling, but a lot of people think that they can just cancel for all sorts of bullandrew_gibbins is a naughty person reasons.

I have seen a lot lately that models have started charging late cancellation fees as well. If you ask me, photographers should do the same. It costs us money to rent studios, drag equipment all over the place, and research good spots to shoot. Not to mention if you are putting together something special, you buy some props and all that. Its only fair that the model is charged as well if a late cancellation happens.

For all intents and purposes, working in this industry really tests your patience at times, but still, its very fun as well. Keep it up, leave bad feedback for those who doesnt show, and move on. Its the easiest way.


alex crawford is off-lineSilver Member
01 May 2013 06:10
alexcrawford
Photographer
alexcrawford
Location
United Kingdom
Essex
Chelmsford

if any model or photographer cancels late or no-shows for
whatever reason plausible or not they must be given appropriate
negative feedback.

this will identify trends in their ability to show up.

although one must have sympathy for hard-luck stories
sympathy only goes to occlude the facts.

if a model's or photographer's baby keeps
getting sick causing late cancellations/no-shows
we need to know of that weakness before gambling
our time and money...

not leaving feedback because the sympathy card
has been played is kicking all models and
photographers in the rear end.

leave feedback good or bad always.





Kevin White is off-lineSilver Member
01 May 2013 07:34
MightyWhite
Photographer
MightyWhite
Location
United Kingdom
Berkshire
Ascot

Quote from alexcrawford
if any model or photographer cancels late or no-shows for whatever reason plausible or not they must be given appropriate negative feedback. this will identify trends in their ability to show up. although one must have sympathy for hard-luck stories sympathy only goes to occlude the facts. if a model's or photographer's baby keeps getting sick causing late cancellations/no-shows we need to know of that weakness before gambling our time and money... not leaving feedback because the sympathy card has been played is kicking all models and photographers in the rear end. leave feedback good or bad always.




It is all very well people saying that bad feedback should be left, but in reality most people don't (me included!) 

Generally I have found it's not worth the hassle. On the occasions when I have done so the models in question have written something negative about me (which, to be fair, the moderators on here have removed when I've got in touch, but there is always the concern that they might not and trying to sort it out just wastes more time).

If the model is fairly new they don't really care and are likely to just give up, so leaving feedback is a waste of time (although I guess it does make them leave and so they don't get the opportunity to do it to someone else), or if the model has been doing it a while and has a long string of positive references, leaving a negative reference (even if true) actually looks like the problem is of your making and so nobody is going to take any notice anyway. 

And of course you can't actually leave 'real' feedback. All you can say is that the model didn't show (or cancelled less than 18 hours beforehand) which doesn't tell other people the whole story - so we don't actually know if the problem is baby who is regularly sick baby or whatever. 


03 May 2013 16:01
johnlp
Photographer


Quote from andrew_gibbins
I have seen a lot lately that models have started charging late cancellation fees as well. If you ask me, photographers should do the same. It costs us money to rent studios, drag equipment all over the place, and research good spots to shoot.



I used to suggest this to some models, and you've probably guessed the responses, "it wasn't my fault", "I can't afford it" or simply no response at all.  Recently I have had two models who were willing to slash their rates if I re-booked, and one said she'd do a three hour shoot for free!  I of course re-booked her, but paid her the original fee.

The biggest problem is that most models don't give you their real name, often use a different mobile for work, and never give their address unless they do home shoots.  It's all very well saying that you'll charge them 50% of your expenses if they don't show or cancel late, but if you can't trace them it's pointless.

I've got 4 shoots happening in the next week and a bit.  Two models I've worked with before and two other, experienced models, that are new to me.  One of the later has a 50% compensation fee if I cancel, but makes no mention of compensation for me if she cancels.  I'm expecting 100% attendence, but we'll see.




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