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Baroness Thatcher (retitled)

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Christopher John Ball is off-lineSilver Member
14 April 2013 05:50
christopher_ball
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London
london

Quote from RedChecker
All sorts of reasons.. dodgy knees, asthma that sort of thing, most of them had something in the past but played on it as if it were a dilapidating condition even though they were well shot of it.  It certainly didn't stop them riding superbikes though (which I'd argue needs a certain degree of physical fitness) back & forth to the Ace Cafe during the day for a laugh while the rest of us were grafting for a living. 

As as for fraud... a former member of the club was sub-letting his flat (provided due to his disablility) to one of his mates for cash in hand and lived at his mum's instead (well, he had to fund his hobby of biking & going to the pub somehow).  The funny thing was he still kept a key for when the inspectors would come around to check on him (they'd tell him a week in advance so he was always well prepared)


Again, I'm only speaking from experience.  I'm sure the rest of the nation that claims benefits does so fully above board and wouldn't contemplate milking a system that's relatively easy to abuse once you have a foot in the door.



Disability can be a 'hidden disability' and may not be physical nor noticeable to an observer with no medical knowledge. On fraud - take the now gone Disability Living Allowance - it had a fraud rate below 1%. Despite what is being put out in the press by Iain Duncan Smith and Esther McVey - it was not an easy benefit to claim. It was also paid to people in work as well as out of work - it recognised that disabled people have extra costs to face. Disabled people are also often denied access to places - or made to go around the houses to access a lift well away from where non-disabled (or in truth 'future disabled') can freely gain access.

There is much in the press that is feeding a rise in hate crime towards people with disabilities. There is an inherent need to abject disabled people. This is often amplified in times of hardship where scapegoats are sought and often supplied by Governments.

Disability hate crime has indeed increased - in part due to misinformation put out by Government in an attempt to drive through policy. It is dangerous and often lacking in basic truth.

I have taken a side step away from much of my photography and/or am using the skills I have to develop projects, to campaign against Government's dangerous disability policy.

Disability benefit fraud is very low indeed - yet this government, despite there having been no assessment yet, plan to cut at least 20% - if fraud is low then this translates to disabled people being denied that which they would have been entitled to - money needed to live.

There is a lot of dangerous misinformation being put out by Government ministers who should know better - especially if they have read history.

I ask everybody here not to fall into the trap and remember that with the perceived 'benefit' comes the disability. I ask that people with no medical experience don't attempt a diagnosis.


Steven Jardine is off-linePlatinum Member
14 April 2013 05:54
RedChecker
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RedChecker
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Buckinghamshire
Stoke Mandeville

Quote from christopher_ball
 I ask that people with no medical experience don't attempt a diagnosis.



Oh I do apologise. 

I simply assumed that while some of my friends were out all day on their (relatively uncomfortable) motorbikes in the cold, wind and rain that their disability wouldn't hinder them from doing a day's work for once in their lives rather than sponge off the state.
When you are dead, you do not know that you are dead. All of your pain is felt by others. The same thing happens when you are stupid.


Tony Stephenson is off-line
14 April 2013 05:59
tonycsm
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Quote from stevephot
Tony I fail to see why you cannot understand that one couple paying 10% of their wages on poll tax is the same as a couple paying only 2%, especially when they cannot afford it. It was seen as a tax on the poor, it was a tax on the poor and im afraid that those who were sold on the whole capitalism dream even today cannot understand the only people who did well from that dream were the upper middle class and above. It is like today the working poor are now in real poverty and its down to capitalism, nothing else.




Clearly we have two very different ideologies Steve..
I believe that as Income Tax & NI is already levied at a higher rate on the earnings of the higher earner, then they shouldn't have to pay extra for Council services and imposing what is effectively Success Taxes to extort even more from them is not going to solve the plight of the so called poor of this country!

Even if we had a single flat rate Income Tax levy for every worker in this country, higher earners would still pay more tax than the lower earners so, they are already paying their share.

The last time I looked at the official HMRC stats, the top 1% of earners paid almost 25% of the total Income Tax burden and the top 10% between them contributed well over 50%!
The bottom 50% of taxpayers on the other hand, contributed only 11.6%, with only 0.6% paid by the bottom 10% so all this anti-capitalist/anti-wealth propaganda about the richer members of society not contributing their fair share or sponging on society is a product of the Socialist imagination!
It's also worth noting that the Income Tax contributions of the lowest earners will be substanbtially less than the figures I quoted since the introduction of the higher pre-tax personal allowances introduced by the Coalition.

Under Thatcher, the ordinary working man for the first time had the opportunity to shed the Marxist idealogy which was holding the country back and improve their lives with real prosperity if they were willing to work hard to achieve it! 
Many ordinary people flourished under Thatcher but unfortunately, it meant taking personal responsibility for their situation and most of those who failed to grasp the opportunities on offer were the ones who clung to their Marxist/Communist idealogy of the state providing jobs and being responsible for everything and were subsequently left behind.

Imposing Success Taxes on achievers will not improve the lives of those at the bottom...only aspiration with the encouragement of government will achieve that but Socialism certainly won't - all Socialism will achieve is drag down the living standards of the vast majority leaving them with no aspiration or enthusiasm to achieve!  


www.le-femme.co.uk


Christopher John Ball is off-lineSilver Member
14 April 2013 06:04
christopher_ball
Photographer

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London
london

Quote from RedChecker
Oh I do apologise. 
I simply assumed that while some of my friends were out all day on their (relatively uncomfortable) motorbikes in the cold, wind and rain that their disability wouldn't hinder them from doing a day's work for once in their lives rather than sponge off the state.



Disability takes many forms as I have said - take depression. depression isn't simply feeling a bit down or sad - it is invisible. A disabled person may do something one day - which is seen and questioned - but they may well pay for it later with terrible pain etc. - which will go unseen and therefore unquestioned. An attempt to 'live for one day' may be paid for the rest of the week.


It is a dangerous path this government has set upon - some ministers are acting irresponsibly - if only they had learnt from history or perhaps they have.


Peter is off-line
14 April 2013 06:06
peterbuchanphoto
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peterbuchanphoto
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Redchecker that is because you are an ignorant ass.
Mental disability might not prevent you from riding a motorbike.. Mine didnt!
I have Asperger Syndrome and was kindly refused DLA because I am capable of the same tasks a trained chip can do and know how to prepare a meal (truly that is essentially what it boils down to.) You have to prove that without assistance you cannot travel or look after yourself and even though I had doctors letters and statements from those who know me highlighting my struggles to look after myself when I get really into my depression, I was deemed perfectly fine. It is NOT a piece of peterbuchanphoto is a naughty person to claim, there are NOT a hugh proportion of dodgy claimants and just because you cant see what is wrong with them doesnt mean they dont have issues. You are probably one of those who tuts at a person stepping unaided from their car in a disabled bay because to you disablity is something you wear across your forehead in big f***ing neon lights!


Steven Jardine is off-linePlatinum Member
14 April 2013 06:07
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
Location
United Kingdom
Buckinghamshire
Stoke Mandeville

Quote from christopher_ball
Disability takes many forms as I have said - take depression. depression isn't simply feeling a bit down or sad - it is invisible. A disabled person may do something one day - which is seen and questioned - but they may well pay for it later with terrible pain etc. - which will go unseen and therefore unquestioned. An attempt to 'live for one day' may be paid for the rest of the week. It is a dangerous path this government has set upon - some ministers are acting irresponsibly - if only they had learnt from history or perhaps they have.



Give me a break.

Make all the excuses you like to defend them but I know these guys, they're a bunch of lazy RedChecker is a naughty person s who'd rather sit around on their arses and be paid for it than get out there and do a day's hard work, end of.
When you are dead, you do not know that you are dead. All of your pain is felt by others. The same thing happens when you are stupid.


Christopher John Ball is off-lineSilver Member
14 April 2013 06:11
christopher_ball
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
London
london

Quote from RedChecker
Give me a break.

Make all the excuses you like to defend them but I know these guys, they're a bunch of lazy christopher_ball is a naughty person s who'd rather sit around on their arses and be paid for it than get out there and do a day's hard work, end of.



I make no excuses - and I did try to give you a break, I simply asked that you think beyond your inherent need to abject or scapegoat.

Views such as yours directly translate into disability hate crime, something which is on the increase and its tone is changing.


Anthonygh is off-line
14 April 2013 06:13
anthonyh
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Kent


Quote from keigo
My thoughts exactly. Well said. Don't speak ill of the dead, especially on the day of their passing. What's wrong with some people?



If she had shown more concern for the living when she was alive there might be fewer people speaking ill of the dead at this moment in time.

I come from a military family and one of the qualities of a great leader (I was constantly told) whas the ability to unite those under him. Thatcher did the exact opposite...the most diversive leader in modern political times..the proof of that is the hatred still shown to her even after her death.

As for her legacy.....my firm belief is that  history will show that Thatcherism ( a 'lite' version of American capitalism basically) was the beginning of terminal decline for the UK. It might have been something else had she not come along...but she did...so it will be her legacy.


Steven Jardine is off-linePlatinum Member
14 April 2013 06:14
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
Location
United Kingdom
Buckinghamshire
Stoke Mandeville

Quote from christopher_ball
I make no excuses - and I did try to give you a break, I simply asked that you think beyond your inherent need to abject or scapegoat.



Like I said, I can only speak from personal experience, the people who I know on benefits are lazy and milk the system if they can, plain and simple.
When you are dead, you do not know that you are dead. All of your pain is felt by others. The same thing happens when you are stupid.


Christopher John Ball is off-lineSilver Member
14 April 2013 06:24
christopher_ball
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
London
london

Quote from RedChecker
Like I said, I can only speak from personal experience, the people who I know on benefits are lazy and milk the system if they can, plain and simple.



No - you speak from a personal need to abject - such views are dangerous. I have stated that such views directly translate into disability hate crime - the nature of which is changing. With the 'benefit' comes the disability. Often the hardest thing to cope with is not so much the disability but the views of people such as yourself. I speak from personal experience.

I very rarely mention this but I am disabled and face daily examples of disabilism. The nature of which has changed and taken on a far more sinister tone. My partner, who herself suffers from a hidden disability and for whom I am primary carer, has been assaulted and spat upon for having 'dared' to remonstrate with those who have abused me for no reason other than the fact that I have a disability. The nature, tone and frequency of said attacks are a great cause of concern for many people who are disabled - and please don't fall into the trap of the genuine disabled vs non-genuine debate.

What I do on one day I pay for with terrible pain on the next - despite the morphine patches and high levels of oral opiates for break through pain. Oh, and I am self employed.

I beg you to rethink.



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