Reminder Secure

Members (particularly models) might find this interesting...

Anthonygh is off-line
30 November 2012 05:39
anthonyh
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Kent


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20515337


Missie is off-line
30 November 2012 17:14
Missie0290
Model
Missie0290
Location
United Kingdom
Merseyside
Newton-le-Willows

That was interesting, But i got the impression maybe she thinks these sorts of things only happen in the modelling world, which is sadly, not so. I think people like her speaking out against any abusers are good, But it is a more widespread issue.

Modelling is a seemingly glamorous profession, and models are certainly not the people you picture when you think of bad working conditions. But wipe off the sheen and another reality emerges.


Many professions are the same. Ask my partner what is involved in my work with horses and he will tell you i go to the stables, mince around on horse back, gossip and come home. A lot of people think that and a lot of people have unrealistic views of a profession - Firefighters for example. I've known people who have this weird warped image of fire fighters being muscley men who wander around shirtless and oiled up, pop out to rescue a cat from a tree once in a while and that's it. There are women who actually have said they would not want to be saved by a female fire fighter WTF? Cause all firefighters are buff blokes right.

Stories of sexual abuse, unfortunately, were very common. One model described a casting with one of fashion's most celebrated photographers who asked her to take her clothes off, then took his clothes off and demanded that she touch him sexually.

Again, well done for speaking out but look at how frequent this is in other areas, Does it really come as a shock that *anyone* can be victim to abuse, And that it is widespread on a larger scale than a couple of particular industries? Sexual abuse is something that needs to be dealt with better, Women need to feel able to speak out, not just models, WOMEN. The conviction rate for rape is an insulting 6% (Possibly lower). I know and speak to a lot of women, And the vast majority, including me, have been sexually assaulted or raped, many in the work place.

In New York, many designers pay their models in "trade", meaning just clothes, not cash. This practice is not illegal - models are generally considered to be independent contractors, not employees, and so minimum wage laws do not apply.


This is not uncommon in other industries either - I have worked at many riding schools and there are nearly *always* children working in return for lessons. Some will give one lesson per 2 days of work. That equates to as little as 75p an hour.

I was left in charge of one riding school. At the age of 17 i had to deal with pretty much everything, apart from the financial side. I had to consult with vets, administer anti biotics, teach severely disabled adults (With a teen present for help, who also had severe learning difficulties, and found it funny to electrocute me with the fence), I had to deal with reporters at one stage - They stalked me and some young teens i had taken out, hurled abuse at me when i asked them to leave me alone.

I didn't do this for free but many of the other girls did it for lessons or for their livery (£30 a week).

I do agree with the gist of it though - I'm no fashion model and never will be, But during times when the fashion industry has come under scrutiny for the models sizes and diets, I have actually had strangers come up to me in the street to abuse me. I have had women spit at me, and tell me i'm disgusting and a disgrace and i'm basically responsible for girls who die of anorexia (Didn't stop to ask why i was so skinny, i weighed 7and a half stone, because i had been incredibly ill and had infact nearly died from an ectopic pregnancy). I've been told i'm abusing my own children by bringing them up thinking this is normal (Sorry, this is normal, for me, i eat like a pig sometimes, check out the half finished large dominos pizza on my lap! I just don't put on weight). It affects a lot of people. I've never set foot on a catwalk and never will, but just based on my size, i have at times been the victim of abuse as a result of the fashion industries behaviour.
"[Toni] has a short fuse when it comes to stupidity"


Vinny V is off-lineGold Member
01 December 2012 04:24
vinman30
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Lancashire
Blackpool

What an eloquently written and informative response Missie0290, well said. +1


Philip Hartley is off-line
01 December 2012 06:41
ph_oto
Photographer
ph_oto
Location
United Kingdom
South Yorkshire
Barnsley

Quote from vinman30
What an eloquently written and informative response Missie0290, well said. +1



Agree entirely.

Say what you Mean and Mean what you Say


Spike is off-line
01 December 2012 06:55
Spike
Photographer
Spike
Location
United Kingdom
Hertfordshire
St Albans

Thee BBC are rather slow in reporting this, it originally made the news during the TUC conference back in September (9th) & was discussed in several forums then

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/fashion/news/equity-takes-fight-for-models-to-the-tuc-8120156.html
Must be a quiet news week.

Moderator Input : See here also  ~ Equity fights for models  

"Photoshop is there to cut diamonds, not polish turds"


Peter is off-line
01 December 2012 08:35
peterbuchanphoto
Photographer
peterbuchanphoto
Location
United Kingdom
West Yorkshire
Leeds

10hrs maximum? pfft its bundling thise kinda demands in which scupper their own arguments (like occupy with their moronic list of demands that no country could ever afford killing any legit points they made). I accept its an active job but so is being a waiter or bartender doing 70+ hr weeks. protection from insane working hours and conditions should be universal not job specific.
Us photographers are told to suck it up about the idustry being a b*tch to make money from due to things like the number of unpaid test jobs rookies will take out of blind naivety or undercutting one another until people cant afford to do a proper job on the money offered. Sadly any industry where supply of wannabes outstrips demand will lead to such a situation. How do you legislate against market forces? Plus it would just mean UK models stop being worth using.

No model should be subject to abuse, intimidation or assault (like any worker) and if their employer/agent fails to follow up complaints there should be an independant agency to ref to (in a lot of cases there is.. the police or a work tribunal) this is more about educating workers to know their rights and how to proceed if they are subject to any forms of abuse. I agree with chaperones for under 16s for both parties protection from allegations be they true or false and nudity should always be pre-agreed as should any dramatic change of appearance but those are contractual matters (ie have one before the shoot - even an email counts for something)

Many careers have exploitation based on the workers desire to advance or shine to their higher ups.. unpaid overtime, not taking holidays, working while clearly very sick, working in dangerous environments without training or protective equipment, training being faked by simply signing off that you did it when you didnt, having to sign the working time regs opt-out before being offered a job, abuse and breaches of contract galore etc. These are all things I have been subject to in the catering and hospitality industries and need protections in place for, but because its not glamourous it doesnt make headlines even on a slow news day. (ps never leave service charge on a bill at hotels or restaurants... staff do not get it and thats actually legal.. hand your waiter/barman the money)


01 December 2012 14:44
AbiHillModel
Model


"Stories of sexual abuse, unfortunately, were very common. One model described a casting with one of fashion's most celebrated photographers who asked her to take her clothes off, then took his clothes off and demanded that she touch him sexually."

Awful as it sounds, i'd put money on the photographer in question being [REMOVED BY ADMIN... PLEASE DO NOT OPENLY NAME PEOPLE IN THE FORUMS]

Sadly modelling does have this "underbelly" at every level, not just the elite. I'm lucky in the sense i've never had a genuinely bad experience. I've met some perverts over the years but I chalk it up as experience, move on and if a model asks, I tell them the truth. I'm pretty confident in my ability to handle myself and know fine well that unless a weapon was involved I could probably ass-kick my way out of 99% of confrontations.

Good on her for speaking out.
http://www.wix.com/abihill/official


Missie is off-line
01 December 2012 17:04
Missie0290
Model
Missie0290
Location
United Kingdom
Merseyside
Newton-le-Willows

Thankyou Vin and Ph_oto, I knew my years on a debate forum would pay off at some point!
"[Toni] has a short fuse when it comes to stupidity"


05 December 2012 17:07
AbiHillModel
Model


Oh come off it admin, it's not like he's a member here and it's quite common knowledge, that's why I said it!
http://www.wix.com/abihill/official


Skymouse is onlineGold Member
07 December 2012 04:24
skymouse
Photographer
skymouse
Location
United Kingdom
London
London

Quote from AbiHillModel
Oh come off it admin, it's not like he's a member here and it's quite common knowledge, that's why I said it!



Is it Jimmy Savile?
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx.



36 Users currently online   Blue=Models Orange=Photographers Red=Agencies Purple=MUA/Stylists Grey=Studios Green=Moderators
Kacie NikkiLouise93 QueenDeeVa01 sarahjane1
Andy_B bbphotos chicimages ChrisD edwards ElegantCaptures Essexjohn focus GSC4X Ianparker1 jackw JRFox Kimily Kjoservices Ladiesman lenscape markeos50d Matt1988 mauricesimagery Mike103 noggy1930 ohkan PDCPhotos Photojoe670 rscott360 scottmcccxiv skymouse Steveh32 Studio1 TinDolls tms Willjamieson