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Blind Man with White Stick Tasered by Police

Durham Photographics is off-lineSilver Member
22 October 2012 17:20
Sarge
Photographer
Sarge
Location
United Kingdom
County Durham


Quote from couchpotato
If Mr Farmer had Tasered a Police man, my guess is that he would have been charged with attempted murder or at a minium GBH by now.



You are wrong.
Yes they would be dealt with for assault and being in posession of a prohibited weapon, but certainly NOT for GBH or attempt murder.
The officer was in posession of the weapon, but in the hands of the police it is not prohibited. He may still be dealt with for assault however.

Playing devils advocate, this is the bit that concerns me (reading between the lines)...

"Mr Farmer said he heard shouting on the street but did not know what it was about and thought he was going to be attacked by "some hooligans".

Quite possible, if he thought he was about to be attacked by some hooligans he started to lash out with his stick. Could this have been perceived by the officer as threatening behaviour? Only the officer (and Mr Farmer) know EXACTLY what went on.


Robert Blandford is off-lineSilver Member
22 October 2012 17:40
couchpotato
Photographer
couchpotato
Location
Australasia
New Zealand
Kirwee

OK Sarge I may be wrong but there are many cases on record of people who if they had attacked a member of the public walk away or get charged with a much lesser offence, but when you do anything to a policeman you always get the highest possable charge that they can stick to the crime?

The general public want all things to be handled with even hand, so why is this officer still working, and why is he still got a Taser. He's bosses should be questioned as well as for there actions. Please correct me if I am wrong, but if a police man is involved in a car accident with his police car he is stopped from driving until investigated by higher ranking officer or body, so what is the difference here?


22 October 2012 17:44
photoclassic
Photographer


Quote from Sarge
  "Mr Farmer said he heard shouting on the street but did not know what it was about and thought he was going to be attacked by "some hooligans". Quite possible, if he thought he was about to be attacked by some hooligans he started to lash out with his stick. Could this have been perceived by the officer as threatening behaviour? Only the officer (and Mr Farmer) know EXACTLY what went on.



Bit too much of a jump in the assumption there I think.  Anyone untrained in combat who fears they are about to be attacked and is not in a position to run will freeze like a rabbit in the headlights.
We do not stop playing because we have grown old; we grow old because we have stopped playing


Durham Photographics is off-lineSilver Member
22 October 2012 17:48
Sarge
Photographer
Sarge
Location
United Kingdom
County Durham


You are slightly wrong.

Firstly MANY people have been let off for assaulting a police officer. Despite all the evidence being in favour of the officer. I know this for a FACT.
If a police officer is involved in a collision then it is investigated, usually by a sargeant. This may take only 15 - 30 mins or so, if only a minor collision. They wouldnt automatically lose their permit. The same as you wouldnt automatically lose your licence if involved in a collision.
If it was a more serious collision (fatal, or life changing injuries) then they would lose it.
If all of them lost their driving permit then there would be VERY few officers on the beat to respond to jobs.


I wasnt aware that the officer was allowed to keep his taser (where does it mention this).


Durham Photographics is off-lineSilver Member
22 October 2012 17:51
Sarge
Photographer
Sarge
Location
United Kingdom
County Durham


Quote from photoclassic
Bit too much of a jump in the assumption there I think.  Anyone untrained in combat who fears they are about to be attacked and is not in a position to run will freeze like a rabbit in the headlights.



Of course it was an assumption (i make no excuses for that), just like you are assuming that he is untrained in combat.
He is partially sighted from having a stroke, and this has also effected his walking. Does that mean in his past life he could not have been involved in any combat? I dont know his past life, the same as everyone else on these boards.

As i said, i am trying to put a different perspective on it.


22 October 2012 18:34
photoclassic
Photographer


Quote from Sarge
Of course it was an assumption (i make no excuses for that), just like you are assuming that he is untrained in combat. He is partially sighted from having a stroke, and this has also effected his walking. Does that mean in his past life he could not have been involved in any combat? I dont know his past life, the same as everone else on these boards. As i said, i am trying to put a different persective on it.



I still think that is a massive over-assumption.  Unless he has trained very frequently and very recently, which is highly unlikely as he has had two strokes and is virtually blind, his automatic reaction to the aggressive shouting he heard approaching from behind will be to hunch the shoulders, pull the forearms in against the torso and pull the head down towards the chest.  This is why even people who have had moderate levels of martial arts training fall victim to muggings and assaults.  Unless your reactions are finely tuned through frequent and very recent training, all you will do for a couple of seconds when confronted with a sudden, unexpected threat is freeze.  This reaction is involuntary and can only be overcome by serious training.  Once the initial reaction time is over and the person has had time to think, it is highly unlikely that a frail, blind man would consider "lashing out with his stick" as opposed to pleading for mercy from his "attackers".

The main problem is "boys and their toys" syndrome.  Give a footballer a ball and he will happily kick around all day but what he really wants to do is get a chance to play for real in a football match; give a soldier a gun and he will happily shoot targets and take part in exercises all day but what he really wants to do is get a chance to go to a real war and shoot for real; give a young copper a tazer and he'll happily carry it in it's holster and walk the beat all day but what he really wants is a chance to be a hero and use the taser on a bad guy for real.  All of a sudden he gets a call that there's some nutter running about with a sword in the town and its like being picked for the team or going on a real mission; only in this case the pitch doesn't just have footballers on it and the battlefield doesn't just have red and blue on it.  Judgement gets clouded by expectation.  In Gulf War One the Americans killed more British servicemen than the Iraqis in so-called "friendly fire" - that was the classic example of "boys and their toys" syndrome but it happens in any organisation where there are attractive toys for the boys to play with but inadequate training and management systems in place.  The more attractive the chance to use the toys for real, the greater the impact on judgement.
We do not stop playing because we have grown old; we grow old because we have stopped playing


Durham Photographics is off-lineSilver Member
22 October 2012 18:44
Sarge
Photographer
Sarge
Location
United Kingdom
County Durham


Cant argue with that.
If they are a taser virgin (most are because not many are deployed) then some may be itching to "give it to 'em".
But there are still a lot who hope to NEVER use it and will always use their mouth first, before going 'hands on' (or taser on in this case).

By the way, it is ALWAYS armed response that get deployed to these incidents and NEVER the beat bobby (who carries the taser).
The ONLY time a beat bobby will get involved is if they happen to come upon it (either accidently or 'intentionally').
A taser is a great tool, but it is VERY easy to miss, and when faced with a samurai sword you dont have much room for error.
So it would be interesting to know how the officer happened to be there. Did he come across it, did he self deploy (which he shouldnt) or was he ARV?


Moi is off-line
22 October 2012 18:52
clearview_photography
Photographer
clearview_photography
Location
United Kingdom
County Durham
North East

Quote from photoclassic
I still think that is a massive over-assumption.  Unless he has trained very frequently and very recently, which is highly unlikely as he has had two strokes and is virtually blind, his automatic reaction to the aggressive shouting he heard approaching from behind will be to hunch the shoulders, pull the forearms in against the torso and pull the head down towards the chest.  This is why even people who have had moderate levels of martial arts training fall victim to muggings and assaults.  Unless your reactions are finely tuned through frequent and very recent training, all you will do for a couple of seconds when confronted with a sudden, unexpected threat is freeze.  This reaction is involuntary and can only be overcome by serious training.  Once the initial reaction time is over and the person has had time to think, it is highly unlikely that a frail, blind man would consider "lashing out with his stick" as opposed to pleading for mercy from his "attackers".

The main problem is "boys and their toys" syndrome.  Give a footballer a ball and he will happily kick around all day but what he really wants to do is get a chance to play for real in a football match; give a soldier a gun and he will happily shoot targets and take part in exercises all day but what he really wants to do is get a chance to go to a real war and shoot for real; give a young copper a tazer and he'll happily carry it in it's holster and walk the beat all day but what he really wants is a chance to be a hero and use the taser on a bad guy for real.  All of a sudden he gets a call that there's some nutter running about with a sword in the town and its like being picked for the team or going on a real mission; only in this case the pitch doesn't just have footballers on it and the battlefield doesn't just have red and blue on it.  Judgement gets clouded by expectation.  In Gulf War One the Americans killed more British servicemen than the Iraqis in so-called "friendly fire" - that was the classic example of "boys and their toys" syndrome but it happens in any organisation where there are attractive toys for the boys to play with but inadequate training and management systems in place.  The more attractive the chance to use the toys for real, the greater the impact on judgement.



And today's guest psychiatrist is............
 
.....thank you Doctor smiley
The most dangerous creation of any society is the man who has nothing to lose." - James Baldwin


Robert Blandford is off-lineSilver Member
22 October 2012 18:58
couchpotato
Photographer
couchpotato
Location
Australasia
New Zealand
Kirwee

"The officer involved has yet to be suspended from carrying a Taser despite the fact that the officer involved would need to be investigated for both disciplinary proceedings and criminal assault on Mr Farmer. 


http://uk.news.yahoo.com/blind-man-sues-police-over-taser-133517444.html 



22 October 2012 19:00
photoclassic
Photographer


Guess it'll all come out in the wash
We do not stop playing because we have grown old; we grow old because we have stopped playing



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