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Can someone help me please?

theperfectgentleman is off-line
04 September 2012 12:53
theperfectgentleman
Photographer
theperfectgentleman
Location
United Kingdom
Essex
Chelmsford

I posted this in the premium as a reply but I feel it requires a broader airing.

I have been discussing the logic of this with a number of models recently, and the general opinion is there is no logic to it at all, can someone explain.

A model works with a photographer and it's reasonable to assume that the same number of poses and shots are taken regardless of the genre of shot. Travel expenses are the same so why the difference of rates?

A model doing a clothed shot has to buy those clothes and once they have been used in a shot there use is diminished for future shots unless it's coordinates.

A lingerie shot isn't any good with used underwear unless a different backdrop is used. But a set of underwear isn't as expensive as a set of clothing. Yet it demands a higher rate than clothed why?

If you are shooting a nude shot then all the model has to do is take her travelling clothes of hoping she isn't wearing an under wired bra and tight lined knickers like an experienced model did on a recent shoot. Yet she expects an enhanced fee for less outlay. CRAZY.

Why is it happening? Why do photographers put up with it? Even with the same fee on all the forms of modelling the girls who keep their clothes on have higher expenses than those who don't.

It baffles me.

Especially as I am hearing on the grape vine that a number of models are having problems with their rent,food and having to give up there independence and having to go home. Yet they still have the same rates as years ago, and still insist on the differential rates.

Isn’t it better to have your home and eat for £5 or £10 less per hour than stick to an unrealistic rate and sit in a cold room without food.

I don’t think photographers know the real answer so can we have an explanation from models 





John VonGeezer is off-line
04 September 2012 13:11
GaryWallace
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Dorset
Bournemouth

so nude should be cheaper?

worth a try I suppose.....good luck with that


Frank Sinnott is off-line
04 September 2012 13:13
frankpht
Photographer
frankpht
Location
United Kingdom
London


It's simple less is more.


04 September 2012 13:20
allegra
Model


In principle I actually empathise with you to some extent, though wouldn't necessarily agree with your assessment of 'all a nude model has to do'. I have never charged more for being nude than I have for being clothed or partially clothed (probably because I hardly ever shoot clothed or partially clothed....!). But I think that a lot of it has to do with placing a higher value on exposing a more intimate, private side of the model if she is nude.


Gerry is off-line
04 September 2012 13:22
Gerry99111
Photographer
Gerry99111
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey
Guildford

So 100% of models shoot clothed and a far smaller proportion shoot nude. Far larger supply of models shooting clothed, its far harder to find one that will get naked.

Many photographers who shoot nude are prepared to pay to do so. Many photographers who shoot clothed are not prepared to pay.

There is far more money available for nude work and far less models prepared to shoot it.

Simple supply and demand.

If however, you think this is wrong, you can either offer to pay all models at their nude rate for clothed work - many will love you for that.

Alternatively, you could try asking models for their clothed rate and then a discount for nude and see how many shoots you can get.

Seriously, -it really worries me why some people dont get the difference between cost and value - do you really think the models would not like to be able to charge more for all their work - the simple fact is they cannot so they work out how best to get an income out of the available cash
If you have to ask why I do it, you will never understand the reason why


04 September 2012 13:29
mgphotomedia
Photographer


The most illogical thing is why you bother to concern yourself with models' rates at all. Just ignore them - simple!

If you want to work with someone just tell them what you would like them to do and offer an all-in rate (or deal if TF) which you're prepared to pay for the shoot. They'll either accept, decline or attempt to neotiate.


04 September 2012 13:30
barone
Photographer


Gosh....I can't believe that you wouldn't expect to pay a premium for a nude model over the price of a clothed one....
Next Model Day...23rd March 2014...http://purpleport.com/portfolio/angie...Interested?...Ask me for details.


Jim Gormley is off-line
04 September 2012 13:31
Truedefinition
Studio
This member has been reset to pending
Truedefinition
Location
United Kingdom
Greater Manchester
Stockport

we asked 100 woman if they would pose naked, how many said yes? I'm guessing a very small percentage.
we asked 100 woman if they would pose clothed, how many said yes? I'm guessing a very high percentage.

There for it would figure that those willing to bare all are rarer and therefore can demand a higher fee..


no doubt it will be pointed out that certain 'super models' can demand higher fees for shooting clothed, but Hopefully you understand my point
Hallam Mill - a creative Photographers playground - 2 Huge (i mean huge) Studios - Daylight - Flash - Infinity Curve - Props..


gerryquiff is off-lineSilver Member
04 September 2012 13:48
gerryquiff
Photographer
gerryquiff
Location
United Kingdom
Lanarkshire
Bonnie Scotland

Quote from theperfectgentleman
I posted this in the premium as a reply but I feel it requires a broader airing.

I have been discussing the logic of this with a number of models recently, and the general opinion is there is no logic to it at all, can someone explain.

A model works with a photographer and it's reasonable to assume that the same number of poses and shots are taken regardless of the genre of shot. Travel expenses are the same so why the difference of rates?

A model doing a clothed shot has to buy those clothes and once they have been used in a shot there use is diminished for future shots unless it's coordinates.

A lingerie shot isn't any good with used underwear unless a different backdrop is used. But a set of underwear isn't as expensive as a set of clothing. Yet it demands a higher rate than clothed why?

If you are shooting a nude shot then all the model has to do is take her travelling clothes of hoping she isn't wearing an under wired bra and tight lined knickers like an experienced model did on a recent shoot. Yet she expects an enhanced fee for less outlay. CRAZY.

Why is it happening? Why do photographers put up with it? Even with the same fee on all the forms of modelling the girls who keep their clothes on have higher expenses than those who don't.

It baffles me.

Especially as I am hearing on the grape vine that a number of models are having problems with their rent,food and having to give up there independence and having to go home. Yet they still have the same rates as years ago, and still insist on the differential rates.

Isn’t it better to have your home and eat for £5 or £10 less per hour than stick to an unrealistic rate and sit in a cold room without food.

I don’t think photographers know the real answer so can we have an explanation from models 








I found a similar problem in the newsagents.

Top shelf magazines where the ladies wore very little clothes were pretty expensive compared to magazines that had ladies with clothes on. 

The sales assistant just wouldn't explain the reason, and threw me out of the shop.  

I'll go back tomorrow using your logic 
CAT WANTED. Must be large enough to make Davy Crockett hat. (6 7/8) Prefer ginger


Iain Thomson is off-linePlatinum Member
04 September 2012 13:54
IainT
Photographer
IainT
Location
United Kingdom
Bedfordshire


This has been discussed so many times before.

Generally, highly regarded models have an hourly rate which reflects their experience and appeal and is the same whether clothed or nude. The type of photographers they appeal to book them because of their experience and appeal, not for pay and display.

Those models who have a scale of rates depending on how nude they get generally tend to work with a similar type of photographer. Ie, those who favour "flash for cash"

I often think that one rate for clothed or nude compared to a scale of charges depending on how much flesh is on show is an indicator of a models class and target market.
I tend to be a modest man, but then I do have a lot to be modest about.



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