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Awwww, Im not kidding you!!!

18 June 2011 15:34
Secondskin
Make-up Artist
This member has been reset to pending


Quote from Imagephotographics
Yet again, I come on to Purestorm castings to find another ad....asking for EXPERIENCED Mua, Photographer desperate and getting all fired up because they have been badly let down by another MUA, Several shoots over several months...All wanted on a....yes...you guessed it....TF basis????? I think Im going to scream! - Me too ! I think quite possibly this maybe to do with a casting call I recently made ! If so, then maybe you will understand why when I explain ........... 1. I was approached by a MUA a few months back, asked if I would be interested in doing some TFP/CD work. I agreed as I was looking to enhance my PF with some new ideas I had & wanted to carry out etc. And at the time thought it was a good idea all round. Thinking myself, the MUA and Models would all benefit from our efforts. 2. I have done several shoots for this MUA, given her great images to add to her PF & new website. 3. Given all my experience & time for free, with equipment that has cost me thousands over the years. 4. Ended up having to make all the arrangements with models. 5. Spent quite a lot of money on props etc to make these shoots work ! 6. Been left to do all the work with arranging location shoots, plus the cost of fuel in getting both MUA & Models to the locations ! 7. Free use of my studio. 8. Then after making all the arrangements, and bookings with models, being left high and dry at the last minute with no MUA, reasons given, Oh I didn't get your message, my phone wasn't working, forgot to check my emails, had to go away at the last minute, and a load of other excuses that are not even worth mentioning ! Believe me, I have felt like doing a lot of screaming too ! 9. Then after a long day's shoot, the use of my studio, my kitchen for tea breaks, having to come home and then start cleaning up the make-up mess, wash the dishes, pick up all the clothes and props and put them all away, get the clothes, wedding gowns etc all dry cleaned at my expense. 10. When all that has been done, the MUA & Model have done their bit, had a nice day out and gone off home happy with their day out ! - Then I have to spend a further few days editing and creating prints & CD's for both ! So, the reason for my casting call was because I had had enough of being messed around, and after having made arrangements with models at the MUA's request, that were coming from all over the country for shoots over the next few weeks, didn't want to let them down, especially when it wasn't my fault. I am very professional in my work, and value my reputation built up over many years far too much ! It seems to me that more and more these days, people want things for nothing, get idea's one day, then forget about them the next as they are off on something else that has just come into their heads. Now I too feel a little bit better after my rant ! Fortunately I have been approached my another MUA, that at the moment seems to be just as enthusiastic, and seems to have the same level of pride in her work to try to create something different as I do - Just hope I don't get proved wrong once again ! Then when I have finished carrying out the shoots that I have promised & put in all the hard work, maybe I will just sit back and wait for the paid work to come in too ............ Mmmmmm Chris



Chris

No MUA worth her weight should be leaving a mess behind her!!! I am a bodypainter also and you can guarantee that simply out of respect, Your studion would look like I had never been there!!!! Ask anyone I have worked with. You should appreciate a photographers studio the same as you would appreciate someone elses home.

Sounds like youre better off finding someone new to work with


18 June 2011 15:36
Secondskin
Make-up Artist
This member has been reset to pending


Quote from ClaireShipman
Chris, You shouldnt be cleaning up after your MUA that is totally disrespectful of you and your studio. Some people are just plain unprofesional and it gives us all a bad name. Im sorry you have been messed around so much. Anwyay... I think the point trying to be made here is that tf* is worth its weight in gold, theres no denying that and Gaynor knows this, she has a great portfolio. I wouldnt be here without the amazing photographers and models I have worked with, that is for sure. I treat my tests as I do my paid work, after all everyone is taking the time to work together to create good images, which is just as valuable as being paid. Though, It is disheartning to see photographers that snapped a badly lit picture of thier cat and made a profile on here expecting profeshionals*(Not just MUA's) who make a living from there work to work with them for free without considering that there is no chance of anyone getting anything from the shoot. However, its always been the same (well maybe a little worse lately, I dont come on often so im unsure) and it wont change whilst people continually encourage these castings by applying for them and while there are people stupid enough to apply for them, they will always be here. Claire



Exactly!! And those applying are only shooting themselves in the foot in the long run.


18 June 2011 15:43
Secondskin
Make-up Artist
This member has been reset to pending


Quote from kt101
Not really. If you don't ask you don't get.
I would gladly pay for a MUA if ever I need one.
Personally I feel loads of folk on internet sites try and get what they can.
I very rarely do TF as I ani't exactly that good. So most of the models I have shot, I have paid for.
Just as a matter of interest, how many photographers have you paid to get more shots for your portfolio.
I could be wrong and you pay loads but with the MUAs I have worked with, most of them have asked for some of the shots for free.
Even though I have paid them to be at the shoot.

Once again.... If you don't ask you don't get.



Hey K

First of all, Iv just read your profile...its funny!! but dont knock yourself too much you have some nice images.  Just wanted to say...I never EVER ask for images from paid shoots...I find this ridiculously cheeky. Although, whether I am just lucky I dont know but most photographers have been brilliant and insist on giving me a print or two because we have had a really good shoot and hes been more than happy with my work and my reasonable rates. And there have been quite a few times where I have arranged a shoot and the photographer has been paid I always try to play fair. 


18 June 2011 17:38
TeddyB
Photographer


Well I'd had the pleasure of Gaynor as a MUA on a shoot that I did at the beginning of this year at Paolo's in S-o-T.

She was there early, listening to my idea's, did a fab job of the make-up, wasn't expensive, she knew her stuff.

The model loved it and said that if I ever dragged her up to S-o-T again, then she wanted Gaynor again.

I would never dream of asking Gaynor to do a TFP, or a reduced fee cheep job. She's a pro MUA, she deserves proper pay.

Ted
You know what's there. Waiting. Beyond that beach. Immortality! Take it! It's yours!


Chris Haley is off-line
18 June 2011 21:45
Imagephotographics
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
West Glamorgan
Port Talbot

I don't normally react to discussions on Forum's, it was just that it was clear to me that I had caused Gaynor's rant with my casting call.

I quite understand your point of view Gaynor, and hope after my explanation that you can now understand why I made the casting call. and see it from my point of view also ! It was only to make sure I didn't let any of the models that had booked shoots with me down.

And as I had already explained, all this came about after being asked by a MUA to help her out as she needed good images for her new PF/Website. And just thought it was a good idea at the time for all concerned to work together and get something out of it. Unfortunately there are good and bad in everything. But get all the ingredients right, and who knows what you can come up with !

Chris


26 June 2011 17:57
Secondskin
Make-up Artist
This member has been reset to pending


Quote from TeddyB
Well I'd had the pleasure of Gaynor as a MUA on a shoot that I did at the beginning of this year at Paolo's in S-o-T. She was there early, listening to my idea's, did a fab job of the make-up, wasn't expensive, she knew her stuff. The model loved it and said that if I ever dragged her up to S-o-T again, then she wanted Gaynor again. I would never dream of asking Gaynor to do a TFP, or a reduced fee cheep job. She's a pro MUA, she deserves proper pay. Ted



Thanks Ted


08 July 2011 05:21
Secondskin
Make-up Artist
This member has been reset to pending


Yes Chris

After checking, It was your post that upset me. I totally understand your side of it after reading what you had to say about letting down models...but I'm afraid if you want a PRO Mua then you should expect to pay. Most (not all) but most muas wanting tf for their portfolio will not be professional ones doing it for a living...so if you want tf make up artist then you have to realise that they MAY be a little flakey and let you down as not all are as passionate about it as others. I do this for a living NOT a hobby and very rarely need to do tf because of the amount of work I do...I don't profess to be the best Mua around as I am well aware that I am not...but it IS my job. You wouldn't ask a builder to come into your home and do a job and then offer him photos of that job?? A silly analogy but you see what I'm getting at. We as Mua's have to put up with this attitude all the time. It all comes back to the fact that we are always the ones that are considered last when the budget is set, I hear it time and time again "we only have a certain amount left in budget for an mua so please can you do it tf/discount/free blah blah!!"

Don't get me wrong I do realise that this is the case sometimes for everyone, photographers included...but more so time and time again for us. So It wasn't a personal attack on you, it was me...expressing my frustration.



Bob Henshaw is off-line
08 July 2011 05:29
BobH
Photographer
BobH
Location
United Kingdom
Cheshire
Warrington

Don't look at castings under the TFP/CD heading. Then you will not get annoyed, SIMPLES



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