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Undercutting

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James  Clark  is off-line
05 July 2009 10:54
make_upartiste
Make-up Artist
make_upartiste
Location
United Kingdom
Glasgow
Glasgow/London

Quote from WhiteHorse
Market forces dictate what photographers can afford in the way of expenditure on models and make up artists. In the photographic profession exactly the same issue exists where by others are under cutting fellow photographers to the degree that not only do the likes of me lose out on commissions because I refuse to lower my rates to pocket money levels but also the rates that are being offered make it hardly worth my while getting out of bed for.  Add to this the surge in TF*  which has become pretty much an expectation across the internet and you can appreciate how those of us who charge for our services are left suffering.  Some photographers might feel quite flattered when approached by a pretty face complimenting them on their work and angling for a TF* shoot but to the likes of people such as me who rely on photography as a source of income I personally consider it to be quite insulting.

I also know a number of  models that have been adversely affected by others undercutting them by offering ridiculously cheap rates and like myself they are left looking in other directions to maintain a living wage. I'm considering turning my back on the model side of things in respect of portfolio development once I return from the USA in August on account of the lack of interest shown in paying for such a service. I will however continue to employ the services of others when I have paid commissions to fulfil. Essentially I am a business with substancial over heads to take in to consideration and I can't shoot for free and you might think people would respect this but many don't. Quite frankly I've grown tired of being treated as though I am a free meal ticket by those who want to make their own way in the world and feel it is their right to do so at my expense.

Across the model internet sites I regularly see casting calls from new comers as well as  models seeking TF* shoots and asking for a full team to include a MUA, stylist and photographer with studio. Do these people really think professionals are in a position to fall over themselves to shoot with them and can offer such services for free. The truth is at the level many of us operate at with in the creative industry it is falling apart at the seams and the only people left will be those who don't rely on the creative industry as a source of income. Not only do people undercutting others harm themselves by charging such ridiculously low rates but they also cause harm to the rest of us involved in the industry who have a realistic understanding of what needs to be charged in order to survive and run a profitable business. I love what I do but the reality is that as it stands at the moment the creative industry stinks.




I fully agree with this.

professional make up artist for fashion and video.


Michelle MacGregor is off-line
23 July 2009 17:50
ProMakeupMichelle
Make-up Artist
ProMakeupMichelle
Location
United Kingdom
London


Claire I totally agree with you!

What so called Professional MUA would or could afford to work for £80 a day (full day)
& if you think they knowingly undercut you to bag the job - tut tut tut tut tut

Don't feel too bad, to be fair your'll be moving onto bigger & better things/jobs & those MUA will still be working for the cheapo clients, on boring un challenging work.

Of course as a MUA I try to accomodate different budgets, & yes I have offered silly discounts for the days where I have no work booked or that are usually quite ie. my mon & tues deal (baring in mind this is only for a 2-3hrs work local to me)
But I always state my full rates, I never ever cut my prices to get a job.

As well as a Make-up Artist of 7yrs I was also a business advisor for 2.5yrs so I know a lot about business & competition, marketing, PR, networking, budgets, profit & loss blah blah blah

These people are not professional, nor are they respecting our profession & the industry.
At the end of the day we will come out winners (not them)

Hard Work, Professionalism, quality, commitment, ambition, passion & all round respect to the industry pay off.



Michelle MacGregor - Creator & Head Make-up Artist - www.glamitwithmac.com


ICONIC :P is off-line
23 July 2009 17:56
Iconic
Photographer
Iconic
Location
United Kingdom
Lincolnshire
Grimsby

for example



Cancellations Recieved:

There fore looking to cover my missing gaps for
Today, Tomorrow & sunday
(17th, 18th & 19th)

I shall work up to all levels
(Fashion, Lingerie, Topless & Nude)
For £10ph + £travel Expensis.

Available for home studios, locations, hotel & modelling studios.

I AM WILLING to travel to the following places by train or car
(Also a 50 mile radius from any place listed below)

Birmingham, Nottingham, Leicester, Cannock, Peterborough, Derby, Cambridge
Also available today in Felixstowe & Ipswich

Please contact me ASAP if you require a shoot.
Best Wishes
pissing purestorm off since 2009


Michelle MacGregor is off-line
24 July 2009 08:44
ProMakeupMichelle
Make-up Artist
ProMakeupMichelle
Location
United Kingdom
London


Quote from Iconic
for example



Cancellations Recieved:

There fore looking to cover my missing gaps for
Today, Tomorrow & sunday
(17th, 18th & 19th)

I shall work up to all levels
(Fashion, Lingerie, Topless & Nude)
For £10ph + £travel Expensis.

Available for home studios, locations, hotel & modelling studios.

I AM WILLING to travel to the following places by train or car
(Also a 50 mile radius from any place listed below)

Birmingham, Nottingham, Leicester, Cannock, Peterborough, Derby, Cambridge
Also available today in Felixstowe & Ipswich

Please contact me ASAP if you require a shoot.
Best Wishes




Sorry I'm not sure why you posted this on this discussion forum??
As MUA's we are discussing the issues surrounding other MUA undercutting & down grading our profession.
????
Michelle MacGregor - Creator & Head Make-up Artist - www.glamitwithmac.com


Tallulah Rose is off-line
24 July 2009 09:01
Tallulah_Rose
Model
Tallulah_Rose
Location
United Kingdom
Kent


i am a make up artist but i do not count myself as professional therefore i do not put myself as one on here but offer to do my own make up, but god id love a tog to book me a mua one day, i hate doing my own makeup!!!!
A rose by any other name would smell so sweet


25 July 2009 15:09
angel_sky
Model


hiya i have just finished my nvq2 in media make-up and was reading what you all had wrote about mua that was at college,
i think what you are saying is 100% right, i feel i have not learnt much at all. i am going onto my nvq3 then hopfully onto uni as i want to be the best i can, for me make-up is my passion.
i understand mua undercutting other mua is not helping anyone and you are probley right that they will not be as good as you ie cutting corners

dont shoot me but..... i have done a few shoots now (and i no im not the best )(non on my profile as of yet will put then up asap)but....i worked on them on a tf** base
what do you all think a newbie mua should do like you have said i will not be as good as most of you but need to do shoots and things to gain my confidents and also build on my port

be nice please
xxxxxxx


29 July 2009 17:07
cassiemakeup
Make-up Artist


the industry is f*cking ridiculous at the moment... i am turning away work out of pride lately. i had an email from a music production company i've worked for in the past asking for me to work for £100/day... as a key for a music video?! are they mental? no way i'd do a music vid without an assistant, no way i'd do what will prob be at leasr a 12 hour day for 100, not even a half day... kiss my ass...

i am lucky, i have some really loyal catalogue/lads mags clients who i am really relying on this year, i can't imagine being a new artist and trying to start out in this financial climate. the ones undercutting are only making life difficult for themselves in the long run/making laughing stocks of themselves... as they say, this too shall pass, or at least that's what i'm telling myself... until i have to go out and get a 'real job' emoticon
http://www.cassiemakeup.com


Jeff Langhorne is off-lineSilver Member
29 July 2009 17:31
Jeff_Langhorne
Photographer
Jeff_Langhorne
Location
United Kingdom
Cheshire
Between Liverpool & Manchester

Quote from cassiemakeup
the industry is f*cking ridiculous at the moment... '  




and so say all of us!!!




Howard Mansfield is off-line
06 August 2009 19:49
HMansfield
Photographer
HMansfield
Location
United Kingdom
Nottinghamshire


I always get: "well My last make up artist used to charge me this ...."

And if they were happy with what their last make up artist was charging, and were happy with the quality, why are they no longer using that make up artist?
Everyone knows photographers make up the hottest proportions of Britains single men. - Kater



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